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 Wartys Dr. Who First Watch

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Warthawg1

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:18 pm

Yeah... just so ya know... that’s not
going to happen tonight. Bad day...
hopefully tomorrow.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:22 pm

Sad

Hope tomorrow is better day.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:56 pm

*deliberately not nagging you*

*admire my restraint*
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:59 pm

OMG, just re-watched "Blink". I have to say that after watching it again, this is definitely tied with "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances" as my all time favorites. They are both superb in different ways. Can't wait 'til you all get there.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:05 pm

Off the top of my head I think I would rank my top 5 episodes as follows:

1) The Library
2) Blink
3) The Girl in the Fireplace
4) The Empty Child
5) The Girl Who Waited

I do think it would be interesting to create an excel spreadsheet of all episodes and have people rank them in order to see how closely everyones favorites match.  It would also be interesting to see whst the most universally hated episodes are.

HEY.  Here's an idea.  Lets come up with an episode score card and everyone fill them out for each episode.  At the end of the rewatch, we calculate average scores and objectively see how the episodes compare.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:42 pm

@vonnegut wrote:
Sad

Hope tomorrow is better day.

Yeah.. well never ye mind that...

I just finished 12-13...

I had typed up a bunch of stuff on 12...

then I stopped to watch 13... got so caught up in the emotions of it all
that I didn’t pay attention to my phone and of course all i had written was lost when I got back to it.

But wow..
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Nessess

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:22 am

12 and 13 are great episodes, but you ain't seen nothing yet.
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Warthawg1

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:42 am

Trying to recreate my thoughts in condensed form...

I knew it was the Daleks right away, long before the reveal.

I had wondered before back to Satellite 5 about how easy it would be for mankind to recover when they know longer were guided by the forces of manipulaion. They were in many was enslaved, and many times
with slavery or even things like abuse... these things become the norm. When they are taken away there is
a void left and its real easy for the next enslaver or abuser to step in and fill that void. Interesting play as well when you think about the programmability of humans and the Daleks themselves.

Anyway... we see again the Doctor having to deal with the consequences of his actions. He seems at times
to misjudge certain aspects of human nature so he doesn’t think about the many different possible consequences of what he does. Yet at times he reads humans quote well, like when he instantly picked up
on the affection Lynda with a Y had for him.

Loved it when the Doctor went all Liam Neeson in Taken on the Daleks. That was great. He’s already destroyed them once so they do genuinely fear him. It doesn’t seem all the human traits had been purged either as the Daleks had a need for a god, and enter Dalek Vadar or Emperor PalpaDalek if you prefer. 
Now the emperor has gone all Heart of Darkness-Col Kurtz out here in the remote corner of the jungle universe with the natives.

I also loved seeing the jealousy from Rose regarding Lynda with a Y. We see again the true affection she has
for the Doctor. 

Theses episodes also made the Daleks finally seem truly menacing despite looking like accessorized shop-vacs.

Enter Roae, the Bad Wolf indeed. i loved how that story played out. While having the power of the time vortex... the dropping of the hints throughout time to herself. This goes along with what she had said earlier
when back home about the Doctor fighting for his life 200,000 years from now was happening right then.
Time is like a record disc.. it’s all right there exiating at the same time, but all you hear or see is whatever point the needle is touching at the moment.

Lots of familiar themes here that we’ve seen played out in many different mediums... some of which I’ve done dirst reads on, and others that have been crafted into literature for centuries pst to Game of thrones.

I HATE to see Eccelstone go, but as I have learned long ago and been forced to accept again very recently;
I just have to deal with the consequences of things that are outside of ny control.

Good stuff.

Funny though... I have other Doctor Who friends, and I am quite certain they enjoy it on a much
more simple level than I and others here might..
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:18 pm

@Warthawg1 wrote:
Trying to recreate my thoughts in condensed form...

I knew it was the Daleks right away, long before the reveal.

EXTERMINATE
<3

Quote :


I had wondered before back to Satellite 5 about how easy it would be for mankind to recover when they know longer were guided by the forces of manipulaion. They were in many was enslaved, and many times
with slavery or even things like abuse... these things become the norm. When they are taken away there is
a void left and its real easy for the next enslaver or abuser to step in and fill that void. Interesting play as well when you think about the programmability of humans and the Daleks themselves.

A lot of these ideas (being played with in this season) are not original at all, including what you're talking about here.
But, the way that DW deals with it is fun.

Partly, I think, because the main character is an alien, but one that has affection for us.

It gives us a sense of "one-step-removed," so that we can observe ourselves, but he (usually) isn't so harsh as to be repellent to our self-image (as a species).


Quote :

Anyway... we see again the Doctor having to deal with the consequences of his actions. He seems at times
to misjudge certain aspects of human nature so he doesn’t think about the many different possible consequences of what he does. Yet at times he reads humans quote well, like when he instantly picked up
on the affection Lynda with a Y had for him.

He has been around humans A LOT, for a long time.
He's just not limited in only being around humans. He has a lot more in his head. Sometimes he needs a re-focus.

Quote :


Loved it when the Doctor went all Liam Neeson in Taken on the Daleks. That was great.

LMAO YES <3
One of my favorite things about the character, too, is his guts. I talked a lot about this on the Empty Child post I made back on the old board, and whether or not this is an aspect of self-loathing and perhaps passive-aggressive self-destruction, or whether it's just a touch of the courage of the insane.

I am still not entirely sure.

Quote :


He’s already destroyed them once so they do genuinely fear him. It doesn’t seem all the human traits had been purged either as the Daleks had a need for a god, and enter Dalek Vadar or Emperor PalpaDalek if you prefer. 
Now the emperor has gone all Heart of Darkness-Col Kurtz out here in the remote corner of the jungle universe with the natives.

LOL nice analogy.

Quote :

I also loved seeing the jealousy from Rose regarding Lynda with a Y. We see again the true affection she has
for the Doctor. 

<3 She was making GREAT "who is this bitch" face.

Quote :


Theses episodes also made the Daleks finally seem truly menacing despite looking like accessorized shop-vacs.

Or, in my favorite expression, "homicidal pepper pots."

Quote :

Enter Rose, the Bad Wolf indeed. i loved how that story played out. While having the power of the time vortex... the dropping of the hints throughout time to herself. This goes along with what she had said earlier
when back home about the Doctor fighting for his life 200,000 years from now was happening right then.


She's just Rose again, with the Time Vortex gone, but she'll always be the Bad Wolf.

Quote :

Time is like a record disc.. it’s all right there existing at the same time, but all you hear or see is whatever point the needle is touching at the moment.

Oooh. I like this.

Quote :

Lots of familiar themes here that we’ve seen played out in many different mediums... some of which I’ve done dirst reads on, and others that have been crafted into literature for centuries pst to Game of thrones.

I HATE to see Eccleston go, but as I have learned long ago and been forced to accept again very recently;
I just have to deal with the consequences of things that are outside of my control.

Good stuff.

I'm just so, so glad you didn't skip 9.
And I'm glad you enjoyed him.
I think this means you will fuckin LOVE 12, maybe nearly as much as I do.

Quote :


Funny though... I have other Doctor Who friends, and I am quite certain they enjoy it on a much
more simple level than I and others here might..

For me that's a good thing about the show.
Like, an 11 year old can love the show.
People can enjoy it on a "goofy british sci-fi" level.
And then there's the fun of enjoying it on deeper thematic levels and really examining the messages.
And then there's Jane.
No one enjoys Doctor Who on a level as complicated as Jane.

It's physically hurting me right now that her Mirror posts are gone. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:21 pm

Go back and read my ep 12 and ep 13 posts, if you haven't yet.

And, next up, Tennant's first episode.

It's a Christmas Special...

One of the awesome things about this show is that you get a Christmas present every year, while the show is on hiatus. A one-hour episode airs each Christmas, usually taking place during the holiday itself or having a snow/winter theme. These are *usually* more of a goofy/fun flavor, although some of them are VERY good.

Taking place during hiatus, they tend to be transitional in nature, and most regens / first-final episodes for a Doctor / etc, take place during these.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:22 pm

@Nessess wrote:
I do think it would be interesting to create an excel spreadsheet

Fuckin of course you do.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:37 pm

But, for S1, my score-card would be... hmm.

"1 - Rose"
This gets points in my head for being a classic, and for being a beginning. The Doctor's "That's who I am" speech is still one of my favorite moments. But, all in all, the plastic is goofy, and the episode as a whole is a bit uneven. I'd give it a 5.

"2 - End of the World"
A little bit more fun. Cassandra, the Face of Boe. Still, early S1 stuff and not all that impressive. 4.

"3 - The Unquiet Dead"
Meh. 4.

"4/5 - Aliens of London / World War 3"
Definitely the low point of the season, and one of the low points of the entire show. Just painfully silly. It introduces Harriet Jones, though, so for that it gets a 3.

"6 - Dalek"
When shit got real. Eccleston's acting alone pushes this episode up pretty far, for me. But I also started, finally, to like Rose. Deft weaving in of Classic DW, while also foreshadowing, great dialogue, deeper themes, nice self-contained story. Solid 8.

"7 - The Long Game"
This one is frankly a bit boring and ridiculous for me. The Face of Boe pops up, easter-egg style, but really I just can't bear to give it more than a 3.

"8 - Father's Day"
I have a little beef with this episode and how it deals with the time travel and paradoxes in kind of an uneven way, and at times doesn't seem to understand itself. But damn, 9 and Rose. And it was the first episode to make me cry. Gotta go 7.

"9/10 - Empty Child / Doctor Dances"
This one is a perfect 10, hands down. The Doctor became real for me, and I became a fan of the show. I don't think it's my #1 episode, but it's definitely in my top ten.

"11 - Boom Town"
I think I would have rated this lower, from memory, than I am after rewatching. Having a Slitheen doesn't make it necessarily worthless. Some interesting character development going on, so I'll give it a 5.

"12/13 - Bad Wolf / Parting of the Ways"
Hmm. 8. A lot to love, but it's not perfect. Some of the dialogue is still clunky, and in my head I'm matching it up with other finales and finding it lacking. However, the Doctor kissing Rose to save her life and dying himself in the process? Wow.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:44 pm

If I were to make a top five list...

Nope, a top ten list...

Off the top of my head, it would probably be:

1) Heaven Sent
2) End of Time Part 1/2
3) Midnight
4) Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead
5) Vincent and the Doctor
6) Empty Child / Doctor Dances
7) Blink
8 ) Utopia / Sound of Drums / Last of the Time Lords
9) Turn Left
10) Husbands of River Song

But that might change upon rewatching.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:30 pm

I just read your comments but all I can say at the moment is knowing it was coming didn't make it
any easier. I was wuite sad because despite the unevenness of this 1st season, I had grown to not
love the Doctor. At this point “loving the Doctor” means loving Eccelstone as the Doctor. I also felt
the hurt for Rose on top of my own.

You were spot on with your comments, but never more-so than talking about how the reboot might
have died in it’s infancy if not for Eccelstone and Piper. I went in with an open mind, but I also went
in knowing that the show would need to have those sort of performances to hook me. 

They delivered.

The supporting cast also delivered, time and time again. 

I’m still sad and Tennant has a challenge on his hands to win me over.

There’s also going to be a challenge for whoever replaces Rose, but based on your
comments that will be a bit down the road.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:25 pm

@Warthawg1 wrote:
I just read your comments but all I can say at the moment is knowing it was coming didn't make it
any easier. I was wuite sad because despite the unevenness of this 1st season, I had grown to not
love the Doctor. At this point “loving the Doctor” means loving Eccelstone as the Doctor. I also felt
the hurt for Rose on top of my own.

You were spot on with your comments, but never more-so than talking about how the reboot might
have died in it’s infancy if not for Eccelstone and Piper. I went in with an open mind, but I also went
in knowing that the show would need to have those sort of performances to hook me. 

They delivered.

The supporting cast also delivered, time and time again. 

I’m still sad and Tennant has a challenge on his hands to win me over.

There’s also going to be a challenge for whoever replaces Rose, but based on your
comments that will be a bit down the road.

Good thing 10 loves a challenge ;)

As far as companions, they come and go, good and bad. Some are boring, some are just fucking terrible, some are amazing and make the show amazing.
Rose is not my favorite, if that tells you anything.

And I completely understand, at this point loving the Doctor means loving Eccleston. He is the Doctor.

But he isn't always the Doctor. And I think, imo, you will continue to love the Doctor.

The transcendence of this character, it's everything. It's why I could hate on 11 for three seasons and he still floored me in his final scene and reduced me to tears. It's why I'm not at all concerned about a woman taking over the role next season, despite the firestorm about that and my own initial doubts.

Because somewhere inbetween 9 and now, for me, I fell in love with The Doctor. Independent of any actor. Up there with Morpheus from Sandman and Roland Deschain from Dark Tower.* There's just so much to him. He isn't the faces he wears, he's the mind behind it, and that stays constant.

I mentioned earlier my musings on the Doctor's guts, and whether it's reckless irrational courage, or passive-aggressive self-loathing. And it's made me think, I think for 9 it's the latter. 9 was fresh off of genocide, and coming to grips with being alone in the universe, the last of his species. I think that, deep down, he wasn't concerned with whether he lived or died. He was ready to die at any time, because he was in so much pain all the time.

The line from Father's Day that slayed me:
Quote :
DOCTOR: You've got what you wanted, so that's goodbye, then.
ROSE: You don't scare me. I know how sad you are. You'll be back in a minute
I know how sad you are.

But, just because 9 is suffering from the guilt of genocide and simple Survivor's Guilt, doesn't mean that stays constant.
With regeneration, his personality can change, while still keeping intact his identity.
We can have a much more involved conversation about this at the end of Tennant's run.
But, for the moment, I think regeneration and the radical personality changes that go with it are one thing, but they are really just a deeper expression of another thing-- we all change.
We all go through things in life that make us different people.
Regeneration is just an extreme version of this.

But I think who Rose is to him, that is as big of an agent of change, as the regeneration itself.

Anyway. I'm rambling now.


*By the way, Mr. Neil Gaiman, author of Sandman, has been a fan of Doctor Who since childhood. It's not a stretch to see how the Doctor, and the inherent themes, had an influence on Morpheus. Gaiman also writes two episodes for Doctor Who, in later seasons. One of them in particular I think you'll like.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:29 pm

By the way, 10 is Jason's favorite, along with 12.

Jason hasn't watched the show, in sequential order, but has happened to sit in on many episodes with me, generally out of order. To quote, "I like the old one [12] and the guy with the hair [10]. But I don't like the young one [11] or the guy with the ears [ Sad fuckin really? ]."
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:34 pm

I am curious as to how you'll react to Donna.

I have a guess, but you tend to subvert my expectations from time to time.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:11 am

Donna is probably my favorite stand alone companion. The Ponds top her as a group, but neither of them is enough on their own to beat her. Top 3 standalone are probably Donna, then Bill, then Amy.

Unless we count 1 offs then its Wilf. love

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:04 am

Stopping in to stalk Warty.

Carry on.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:39 pm

@catnap wrote:
Stopping in to stalk Warty.

Carry on.
I’ve had some “things” going on.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:46 pm

I agree with you about the guilt, Vonne...

It’s hard to fathom the horrible personal consequences for the character because of the somewhat
light-hearted nature of the show, but it’s there. In amongst the humor, the courage, his affection for 
Rose.. it is subtle, but there.

Then there are brief outbursts where it’s even more obvious.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:24 pm

Gaiman's favorite Doctor? (at least from the classic series)

<-- Same as mine
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:52 pm

I guess Rose/Bad Wolf/Heart of the Tardis has a thing for Jack, because in this case, not everybody lives, only Jack was revived. Perhaps she deemed that he has an important part to play in the time stream or the future of the universe? Interesting that he is left abandoned in the year 230,000. I wonder if time machines are standard technology in that year?
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:07 pm

No comment, spoiler-free zone ;)
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:42 pm

Well only 1 episode in so I can’t say I’ve warmed up to the new Doctor. It will
still take some getting used to, I believe.

I don’t have anything against Tennant so I’m sure I’ll come around, or not.


I guess the show did its job well enough... introduce the new Doctor, etc.

Harriet Jones is back... and I’m not being too judgemental on her actions.. the Doctor
has already shown he can make mistakes and not correctly judge the consequences
of his actions. Who knows... letting them go could easily have brought back 100’s of more
potential conquerors. I get Harriet’s move... when you are the leader you sometimes have
to make a tough call not knowing if it’s the right call, but you have to be willing to act. This
act may seem harsh, cruel, unjustified, and you have to live with the consequences of 
appearances without ever being able to prove what might have happened had you not
acted.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:27 pm

@Warthawg1 wrote:
Well only 1 episode in so I can’t say I’ve warmed up to the new Doctor. It will
still take some getting used to, I believe.

I don’t have anything against Tennant so I’m sure I’ll come around, or not.


I guess the show did its job well enough... introduce the new Doctor, etc.

Give it time.

I'm 99% sure that Tennant will grab you eventually, it's just a matter of when.
Eccleston is hard to follow when he's your First.

Some people transition quickly, for some it could take nearly a season.

I was completely repelled by him until his "From the moment they arrive on the planet, and blinking, step into the sun, there is more to see than can ever be seen, more to-- no, wait, that's the Lion King" line surprised a giggle out of me.
And then I accepted him with "No second chances. That's the kind of man I am."

One interesting thing to think about, is that while, to quote, "it's a bit dodgy, this process... you never know what you'll end up with," I don't think it's random, the regeneration.
Throughout each life, the Doctor is growing, changing, developing, as all sentient things are-- but I think his regen allows him to more fully express what's been going on with him.

I have some spoiler-heavy thoughts about how and why he became 9, that I'll save for another time. But as to how and why he became 10, I think that, 1) instead of being fresh off of the Time War, he's had some time to process it and figure out how he feels about all of it. Re-confronting the Daleks, the realization that while his people are gone, they aren't, etc. 10 can be much darker and seem much older than 9. Less of 9's sudden-rage and more.... hmmm. How do I put it. Well, perhaps we'll revisit that part when you've seen more of 10.
But, 2) he's had the influence of Rose. And their... friendship/more? I think that also has a lot to do with 10's general attitudes and personality.

I love the goofy Christmas-Tree-Of-Death scene just for Rose whispering in the sleeping Doctor's ear "Help me" and he instantly wakes up.

Quote :

Harriet Jones is back... and I’m not being too judgemental on her actions.. the Doctor
has already shown he can make mistakes and not correctly judge the consequences
of his actions. Who knows... letting them go could easily have brought back 100’s of more
potential conquerors. I get Harriet’s move... when you are the leader you sometimes have
to make a tough call not knowing if it’s the right call, but you have to be willing to act. This
act may seem harsh, cruel, unjustified, and you have to live with the consequences of 
appearances without ever being able to prove what might have happened had you not
acted.

This is a nail-on-the-head post.

When really, Harriet had VERY good reasons. Like she said, the Doctor isn't always here, but humans are-- HER people. She has to protect them as best she can between times when he decides to pop in-- especially since, you know, on not EVERY day "Everybody Lives." Most days, SOMEONE is going to die. Perhaps he pops in to defend when shit really hits the fan, but there have usually been some casualties first, and Harriet is a Human Chauvinist-- better a ship full of dead aliens, than any number of possible dead humans.

The Doctor, for one, doesn't have that particular species preference. All of HIS species are dead. It puts him in a uniquely objective perspective. He cares for individuals-- he'd protect Rose at all costs, for instance--, but he's not going to stick up for some species over another, not even humans.

In addition to that, at this point in his life he IS very judgmental. I think a part of that is, actually, having had to come to grips with his own mistakes and regrets and consequences. He has a mission in mind, to end suffering as much as he can, to be the Doctor and first do no harm. And he's not going to be all that tolerant of others' mistakes that cause what he sees as needless harm.

A bit hypocritical, maybe, but it's not like he killed Harriet for what he saw as her mistake. He simply judged that she was too volatile and should not be making these decisions.

Whether he's right or wrong, he believes it.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:30 pm

To lightly spoiler, one of the fun things about meeting 10 again is contrasting him with 12.

By 12, a lot of the judgmental stuff has eased off greatly. 10 has a lot of learning to do.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:32 pm

Next up, "New Earth" is the actual first episode of S2.

It's FULL of goofy, but I still enjoy it a lot and I think it gives a lot to ponder-- silliness aside (*cough*cat people*cough*), the actual story is a fascinating one. Plus the return of some old faces. No pun intended.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:32 pm

I want to see Warty's S1 Scorecard.

Ness has Excel Spreadsheets to make.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:05 pm

What.. an episode ranking?

I deal with vlookups and pivot tables all day long. I don’t come here to
Excel!

Oh I forgot to mention how funny it was last eppy of S1 with
the “and we’re going to get you!”

I am sure I will warm to Tennant.. I already did some. It’s just how
much I identified with Eccelstone. The silliness, but with the underlying
rage because of what he had seen and done.. how close he still was with
the events of the Time war.

It’s not that I won’t like Tennant... it’s just that I wanted more of Eccelstone
before he left the role. I just feel he departed too quickly, and left me wanting. 
I imagine with others I will think that “it was time”.

I know however that Tennant is up there with Tom Baker at the top of the list
of Doctors, but so is Eccelstone I imagine.. and his time was so short.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:31 pm

Actually a lot of people diss Eccleston, and I think it's because he had only 1 season and parts of it were so shaky.

But they are Neanderthals.

Eccleston is and always will be amazing.

You take your fuckin' time, and meditate on your loss. I support that 100%.



(By the way... the overarching character of the Doctor, and the details of the Time War, you will enjoy.)
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:34 pm

Tennant is my favorite of the modern Doctors. Baker and Davidson of the past.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:06 pm

The New Earth...

Okay... I will keep this brief.. 

I don’t know where Tennant will land on a ranking with me, but I can deal with it.
I think he has done a good job with being different, yet somehow the same.. although
I may ultimately still prefer Eccelstone. I mean it’s pizza from two different places.

I must admit there was a gargantuan hole in the logic of this episode. The sisters seemed
to find sentience of the flesh as abnormal and they extinguished it.. but then with no explanation
it seems they were all sentient. A poor job was done there in regards to how I should feel about
the sisters. I neither loathe nor absolve them. It’s weird. 

I did like the zombie aspect of this story, but again logic holes.. if they could already cure everything
these folk had as the story showed the could, then why were they still needed? Plus why were so
many of them needed considering they all seemed to have the same batches of disease.

Overall though the silly or even stupid moments were overcome by a very sweet ending, and my
love of Rose and the Doctor character wins the day.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:16 pm

*waiting patiently for you to get to episode 4*

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:57 am

@Warthawg1 wrote:
The New Earth...

Okay... I will keep this brief.. 

I don’t know where Tennant will land on a ranking with me, but I can deal with it.
I think he has done a good job with being different, yet somehow the same.. although
I may ultimately still prefer Eccelstone. I mean it’s pizza from two different places.

I must admit there was a gargantuan hole in the logic of this episode. The sisters seemed
to find sentience of the flesh as abnormal and they extinguished it.. but then with no explanation
it seems they were all sentient. A poor job was done there in regards to how I should feel about
the sisters. I neither loathe nor absolve them. It’s weird. 

I did like the zombie aspect of this story, but again logic holes.. if they could already cure everything
these folk had as the story showed the could, then why were they still needed? Plus why were so
many of them needed considering they all seemed to have the same batches of disease.

LMFAO, yes, all valid. These have bothered me, but I let it go. "New Earth" will never make anyone's top list, but Cassandra and all of the body-switching is fun enough that I enjoy it anyway.

And Face of Boe! With his cryptic message. Very Happy RTD (the guy who runs the show from S1-S4) sometimes has long plot arcs.

Quote :

Overall though the silly or even stupid moments were overcome by a very sweet ending, and my
love of Rose and the Doctor character wins the day.

<3

And Ness, on Amazon the ep you're talking about is listed as 5, because they count Christmas Invasion as 1.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:38 pm

I used Pi-O-My's google search trick and found my Empty Child / Doctor Dances post.

before it's gone for good:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:21 pm

S2E3  Tooth and Claw..

Initial thoughts...

Am I going to see Werewolves of London, or an episode of Kung Fu with
the Shaolin Monks?

Just for the record... Head priest bad dude looks like Pyat Pree



Swear to goodness .... its got to be the same guy.

Anyway... oh and the Doctor just inadvertently showing up
100 years off...

I don’t think that’s accidental..
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:25 pm

It is the same guy.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:25 pm

@Warthawg1 wrote:

Anyway... oh and the Doctor just inadvertently showing up
100 years off...

I don’t think that’s accidental..

The TARDIS will TARDIS....
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:26 pm

Seriously, when we get to the first Neil Gaiman (of "Sandman") written episode, remind me to remind you of this.

"You didn't always take me where I wanted to go."
"No, I took you where you NEEDED to go."
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:41 pm

Well that episode certainly had a bit of gravitas. I loved the Queen, but there are still a few
issues here...  I can’t fully buy the acceptance of the TARDIS in the middle of a field in 1879.
I don’t recall it being like his notepad that makes people see whatever ID or credentials he
needs at the moment.

I also didn’t care for the ambiguity of the Queen shooting Pyat Pree. It was like they wanted 
me to wonder what really happened in there when she shot, but that aspect of the story never
grabbed me. i found it quite lacking. I would have preferred more near the end of the story
making it more mysterious or I would have preferred to see him say something like “you may kill
me now, but the wolf will live forever” and then show her shoot him and him actually dying.

I also would have preferred more about Rose being the “bad wolf”.. again that left me lacking.
It was said by the werewolf as if it were a huge deal, but then it just sort of went away.

Now don’t get me wrong.. I found the episode to be thoroughly enjoyable, but it just
seems there was so much more possible there.. something left unfinished.. a story that never
reaches its full potential.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:29 pm

@Warthawg1 wrote:
.
I don’t recall it being like his notepad that makes people see whatever ID or credentials he
needs at the moment.

Psychic Paper was introduced in S1E9.

Quote :

I also didn’t care for the ambiguity of the Queen shooting Pyat Pree. It was like they wanted 
me to wonder what really happened in there when she shot, but that aspect of the story never
grabbed me. i found it quite lacking. I would have preferred more near the end of the story
making it more mysterious or I would have preferred to see him say something like “you may kill
me now, but the wolf will live forever” and then show her shoot him and him actually dying.

I also would have preferred more about Rose being the “bad wolf”.. again that left me lacking.
It was said by the werewolf as if it were a huge deal, but then it just sort of went away.

Now don’t get me wrong.. I found the episode to be thoroughly enjoyable, but it just
seems there was so much more possible there.. something left unfinished.. a story that never
reaches its full potential.

I see your criticisms and I don't deny them.

This was never a highlight episode for me. If anything, the best thing about it was that one throwaway line of the werewolf to Rose "you have something of the wolf in you."

But mostly it's goofy fun. "THE ROYAL FAMILY ARE WEREWOLVES." "We are not amused."

The thing with Doctor Who is the many, many writers. Each episode is a "what are you going to get" because it's always a different writer. And that makes for a lot of filler.

But, I wouldn't love it and wouldn't want others to love it, if there was not so much amazing shit between the filler.

Fair warning, for next episode-- in the Classic Series, one of the most beloved companions (Rose's current role) was Sarah Jane. The same actress from the classics, much older now, makes a return as Sarah Jane, with a robotic dog (K 9) that was featured in her episodes with the Doctor ( I believe it was the 4th Doctor).
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:31 pm

And the episode after next-- that is the one that Ness is eager for you to watch.

And I'm interested, too. It isn't on my top 10 list and never will be, but it's on a LOT of people's top 10 lists.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:11 am

Shame on you.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:20 am

w My comments probably made the experience sound worse than it was.

It was great fun.


Funny you should mention the robotic dog. i have a vague recollection
of that from my youth and it may be part of the reason I was hesitant to 
begin watching the show... thinking it was too silly.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:03 am

I also couldn't get past the clunky props.  I recently checked out a few of the early episodes and the stories are quite good.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:19 pm

How's it going.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:22 pm

S2E4.. or 3 depending on your POV

Okay... that was a really great episode on one level, and a good one another.

The great part: 

It was easy to put together quickly that SJS was an earlier companion. This also establishes
pretty firmly this isn’t a reimagining, but a true continuation of the original show. The jealousy..
the interaction between the older ex-companion and the younger replacement was great. Everthing 
about that was great.. how does a former companion deal with it when the doctor moves on...
the impact on their life... the overarching implied commentary that was also repeated in actual
dialogue (our pain and loss defines us.. we are what we are because of what we’ve been through).. the fact that the Doctor will at some time move on. The Doctor showing his capacity for wrath again.. This was all brilliant. I didn’t even mind the tin dog.

The merely good:

Everything else. The story itself.. the bat creatures etc was good, but not truly extraordinary. Very solid..
and above average, but not more than that. As a matter of fact, it was really just really solid scenery...

The real “story” is what I first said...
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:53 pm

The terrible: The special effects, lmao.

I'm so glad you liked it <3 More comments later.

I think you might enjoy the next episode, but not as much as Ness does.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:22 am

Which is the real episode 4 which I will be calling episode 5, correct?

 THERE’S A LOT OF CONFUSION HERE, PEOPLE!!
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