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 Wartys Dr. Who First Watch

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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sat May 05, 2018 4:43 pm

You're not looking at the statue.
Neither are you.

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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sat May 05, 2018 6:25 pm

I think that logically it stands up that it's a time loop that has ALWAYS happened this way. But yes, it's def more wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey than most episodes.

Moffatt generally manages to get away with outrageous shit like that.


By the way, Warty-- next up is a three-fer.

Utopia/Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords -- three-part finale.

You don't HAVE to watch all three at one time-- after all, they didn't all air on the same day-- but just letting you know.

These are some of my favorites, pure dramatic Davies stuff with my favorite Doctor Who villain of all time (one of my favorite villains ever, and I have quite the collection).
But, they ARE pure dramatic Davies stuff, which isn't to everyone's taste.

I'm curious to see what you think of them.
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Warthawg1

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun May 06, 2018 12:34 pm

I watched Utopia last night.

I probably wont really comment until I am
done with all 3.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun May 06, 2018 12:51 pm

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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun May 06, 2018 12:52 pm

@Warthawg1 wrote:
I watched Utopia last night.

I probably wont really comment until I am
done with all 3.

Sounds good.

Although, by the way, since you've watched that one, The Master is an old-time classic villain. There is a lot of history there. I'll share a link to it if you're interested, but you don't have to know all the backstory to enjoy it.
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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun May 06, 2018 2:18 pm

Ah The Master...
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MrBill60

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun May 06, 2018 4:12 pm

Back to Blink for a second.

Blink is #2 on my favorites list and probably #1 on production value, the editing was just perfect.  EC/DD edges it out slightly with the acting and emotional content.  

I think Blink would have been even more awesome if the Sally that Billy Shipton married was Kathy Nightingale's daughter, connection in time and all that.  but I'm not sure if that's the case. It would depend on when the wedding photo of Billy and Sally was taken (looks to be in the 70's and I think Kathy died in '87).  If Kathy was still alive when her daughter married Bill then she would have definitely mentioned it in her letter to Sally Sparrow about their connections to Billy.  Anyway, even without it's still near perfection and near the top of my list.

On the bottom as the worst Dr. Who episode that I've seen, even below Love and Monsters,  is "The Lodger" from Season 5.  I tried to re-watch that episode yesterday and I couldn't get through it.   Whoever wrote that episode had no clue on how the Doctor behaves.  I like Matt Smith but overall in at least season 5, the Companion(s) outshine the Doctor. He is for the most part written as an incompetent nincompoop,  especially in comparison to the 9th and 10th Doctors, but exceptionally so in "The Lodger".  That was so bad.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun May 06, 2018 4:25 pm

@MrBill60 wrote:


On the bottom as the worst Dr. Who episode that I've seen, even below Love and Monsters,  is "The Lodger" from Season 5.  I tried to re-watch that episode yesterday and I couldn't get through it.   Whoever wrote that episode had no clue on how the Doctor behaves.  I like Matt Smith but overall in at least season 5, the Companion(s) outshine the Doctor. He is for the most part written as an incompetent nincompoop,  especially in comparison to the 9th and 10th Doctors, but exceptionally so in "The Lodger".  That was so bad.

Yes. I dislike many of 11's episodes, but that one IS pretty bad.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun May 06, 2018 4:37 pm

I just looked up who wrote it-- Gareth Roberts, who writes terrible episodes.

He also did "Shakespeare Code" in S3, and "Unicorn and the Wasp" in S4 (another bad one).
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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun May 06, 2018 6:12 pm

I like the Unicorn and the Wasp but more as a guilty pleasure. The necessity of the episode is questionable.

As for Matt Smith, I tried to like him but the winner is really The Ponds. I quit watching DW with MS at some point and haven't watched since.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun May 06, 2018 6:51 pm

You're REALLY missing out, not seeing Capaldi.
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MrBill60

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun May 06, 2018 7:02 pm

I stopped after Matt Smith as well. I saw one episode with Capaldi, he didn't grab me and at that point I was "Who'd" out.
But I might give Capaldi another shot after I rewatch S6.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun May 06, 2018 8:03 pm

@MrBill60 wrote:
Back to Blink for a second.

Blink is #2 on my favorites list and probably #1 on production value, the editing was just perfect.  EC/DD edges it out slightly with the acting and emotional content.  

I think Blink would have been even more awesome if the Sally that Billy Shipton married was Kathy Nightingale's daughter, connection in time and all that.  but I'm not sure if that's the case. It would depend on when the wedding photo of Billy and Sally was taken (looks to be in the 70's and I think Kathy died in '87).  If Kathy was still alive when her daughter married Bill then she would have definitely mentioned it in her letter to Sally Sparrow about their connections to Billy.  Anyway, even without it's still near perfection and near the top of my list.


Didn't Kathy Nightingale disappear before Sally Sparrow met Billy Shipton? So why would ahe think to give the details of who her daughter Sally married? 

Speaking of... now wasn't she KN's youngest? which makes it very
plausible that she could have been about the right age to marry 
Billy, and as far as we know (I think) neither Billy nor Kathy were
running around in history blabbing to everyone how they had travelled
in time amd that they knew a Sally Sparrow in the future.

I might not be thinking of some dialogue or detail that proves me
wrong, but I instantly thought it was implied that Billy married
Kathy Nightingale's daughter Sally.

Reason: This episode was too well crafted for it NOT to be true...
They didn't have to mention KN's daughter was named Sally, and that
Billy had married a Sally "just because". I completely believe they
put that in for a real reason... those things had implications. I mean
Sally could have been KN's first child instead of youngest, which would have made the age thing a little wierd, but she wasn't... and she was
more than a wee bit younger than KN's other two kids.
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Warthawg1

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun May 06, 2018 8:13 pm

@Warthawg1 wrote:


Sally Shipton... Sally Sparrow... Sally Wainwright... sit and smoke on those three Sally's for a bit... I'll not say more at this time.

^^^^^
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun May 06, 2018 8:14 pm

I also assumed that it was Kathy's Sally.

There's only but so much Sally to go around.
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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun May 06, 2018 8:58 pm

Maybe Billy had a Sally fixation.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun May 06, 2018 9:47 pm

I was coming from perspective that Billy would have made contact with other Weeping Angel victims during his lifetime and eventually met Kathy and her daughter. After all, he was a detective.  If it panned out that way I would imagine that their shared experience would have come up at some point including the connection with Sally Sparrow.  But I agree that it was most likely intended. The omission in the letter gave me pause but works dramatically.


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Warthawg1

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 07, 2018 12:41 am

Utopia


What follows is my real time random thoughts..


This was very solid despite some unexplainables.. 
(How the Master made it year 100 trillion..Yana claimed watch had never worked, but he had never opened it so how would he know)

In this eppy there were nice parallels parallels between Martha and Chantho in that they both have unrequited love for a Time Lord, even though Chantho doesnt know about Yana yet.

“Time Lord, last of. Heard of them? Legend or anything? Not even a myth? Blimey, end of the universe is a bit humbling.”. 

Also a bit humbling to find out you're not the last Time Lord in the universe.

"They say there was time travel back in the old days. I never believed. But what would I know? Stupid old man. Never could keep time. Always late, always lost."

Loved this, and it sort of points to.. foreshadows a reveal of Yana being truly out of place.

Interesting that the Tardis went to the end of time to try and shake off Jack. a fixed point.. the ultimate anti- Tardis.

Some good stuff with Martha and Jack coming to a common ground on the frustrations of dealing with someone both amenable, adorable, yet unknowable.

Davies seems more concerned with dramatic narrative than Moffit who is a bit more detail oriented. 


Like I said.. my random thoughts.

Martha recognizes his voice after he regenerated. That seals the identity, and I knew Saxon would be revealed shortly.

Good job by the actor playing Yana.. pulling off kindly old man and terrifying menace within seconds. Again with the strength of the supporting actors. It must be fantastic as a writer to have this show be so iconic that it attracts this sort of talent.
I can only imagine this guy is some legend of stage.


Transition to...
The sound of Drums & Last of the Time Lords.

"What this country needs right now, is a Doctor" Well I can only see this as the beginnings of a trap.

Gases everyone and gives the Nixon thumbs up... lol 

The Master character almost has an anti-Christ thing... hypnotic on a massive scale, political, probably gonna subjegate humanity and bring about it's demise... great parallels

Martha was an idiot running off and calling everyone...

Saxon is a great villain.. I think his humanity (appearance at least) makes him so great an enemy. Maybe I should have said Time Lordness... It's so easy paint Daleks, Cybermen, or alien as villains, but the familiarty of the enemy that looks like you is so much more sinister.


The Doctor is one who ran away...and he still runs...

"It's like when you fancy someone and they don't even know you exist" Jack says "you too" or something similar
...more shared issues about the Doctor between Jack and Martha


One thing I love about this show is how it attempts to recreate the British world dominance. The eyes of the world are always on England, and even 'Merica is should be forced to subjugate itself. Then 'Merica comes in as usual all heavy handed

Then here near the end... more anti-Christ.. Christ is God and the anti-Christ is the anti-God. Then there is the dialogue about looking down on what he has caused to be, and it is good... but he is talking about destruction instead of creation. The true "anti".

Moving on to LOTTL

Martha still holds a fantasy that her and the Doctor were a thing.. sad. I see the dishrag thing..

Then the Doctor has become Gollum.

As they dissect the sphere... 6 billion of them were mentioned... pretty sure that is the same number from Utopia. Nice..


Nice when time was reversing the shout out to Superman the earth spinning in reverse. Gotta save Lois!

At the end the Doctor was so lonely and so guilty for his species he wanted the Master to regenerate. How strong does that resonate.. He can't kill that which he should kill..
He has killed enough of his own, and he is so lonely for some truly relatable companionship...

Amazing how this show can make the Doctor so silly, yet still somehow developed this level of complexity and depth.

Then there it is... Jack Harkness and his almost immortality is the face of Boe.. holy hell. I hope they leave that exactly as it stands here, and never explain or verify it further. 

Martha Jones saved the world, and wow... left the Tardis. Is that truly it?? She's done as companion? At least she realized shoe was a dishrag...

... at least she left an explanation, and in his own way the Doctor said "no" yet again.

... and then like that, he was gone.. presumably he will
find a new companion yet again...

I don't know anything about the tV show Torchwood, but I must ask if Jack Harkness is a recurring character on it??


I liked this 3 part ending tremendously, but in a distinctively different way than something like Blink. The shifting of creative forces for this show creates tremendous challenges, but also tremendous reward.


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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 07, 2018 2:07 am

The great Derek Jacobi. I wish they could have paid him to remain as The Master, 'cause his replacement was just awful as a character and an actor. I know I'm mostly alone on this, but I truly can't stand the character and the performance.

Martha left the Tardis because she was written out of the show. Plus I think after saving the world by deshrinking the Dr, and having witnessed so much death, and now things are generally returned to normal, I'd want a break too. Some past companions, I mean way past, leave right after a horrible disaster that the Dr doesn't even bother to rectify. Some of course leave to pursue their chosen field and because the Tardis is a little cramped. And some just die. I'm talking about, of course, Tegan, Nyssa, and Adric, my fave companions way back when I was a baby Whovian. But don't worry! Tennant's next companion is excellent!

Jack Harkness is the lead in Torchwood. I have a dual response to Jack. I like him and don't like him all at the same time. He wanders freely into overacting. But sometimes the scene calls for it.

I found Utopia the best of the three episodes. The next two I just watched. Martha was the character I was most interested in.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 07, 2018 2:39 am

Yasssss. You got to the Face of Boe reveal. That's one of my favorite individual moments of the show. So completely unexpected.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 07, 2018 8:56 am

I don't know what is going on with this place, but the site seems a bit squirrely.

I absolutely did not make my font giant in the above post, nor do I like it that way.... and the site
doesn't seem to want to let me change it.

What a pain in the ass... every single individual line of that post has separate giant font size tags on it.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 07, 2018 9:14 am

@Nessess wrote:
Yasssss.  You got to the Face of Boe reveal.  That's one of my favorite individual moments of the show.  So completely unexpected.  

I'm a bit conflicted about it. I want no further explanation as I think that in some way would ruin the effect, but
there are a lot of questions. I am still processing how I feel about it... cool and clever yet some issues
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 07, 2018 12:24 pm

@davidalan wrote:
The great Derek Jacobi. I wish they could have paid him to remain as The Master, 'cause his replacement was just awful as a character and an actor. I know I'm mostly alone on this, but I truly can't stand the character and the performance.

. . .


OT, Jacobi
I recently picked up the DVD set of "I, Claudius", one of the best TV productions ever, imo.  Jacobi in the title character and a young John Hurt, Patrick Stewart  and John Rhys-Davies to name a few of the "greats".  Fantastic production.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 07, 2018 5:58 pm

@davidalan wrote:
The great Derek Jacobi. I wish they could have paid him to remain as The Master, 'cause his replacement was just awful as a character and an actor.

Your opinion is stupid, and you're stupid.

Simms is EVERYTHING. I love him so much.

More comments tonight on the details, but yep, done with Dishrag Martha.

Not a moment too soon.

Next one is a Christmas Special, "Voyage of the Damned," where you will (briefly) meet one of my all-time favorite characters.
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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 07, 2018 7:32 pm

What one of my all-time favorite character? RT in a uniform? Or the much shorter guy? Or her???? I like Voyage of the Damned but it's also kind of weird.

Oh my opinion's stupid and I'm stupid huh? Why don't you shrink your oversized opinion and stuff it in a bird cage!
danceturkey :thanksgiving:

Simms is a simp. And a bore. And too loud and too hyper and here I am the hammiest Master ever!!!! Well, the Master part's right although incomplete...  
mad2

As for Martha...  popcorn
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 07, 2018 7:41 pm

@davidalan wrote:
What one of my all-time favorite character? RT in a uniform? Or the much shorter guy? Or her???? I like Voyage of the Damned but it's also kind of weird.

Someone's grandpa. Blink-and-you-miss-it, but that's his first episode.

Quote :

Oh my opinion's stupid and I'm stupid huh? Why don't you shrink your oversized opinion and stuff it in a bird cage!
danceturkey :thanksgiving:

LMFAO
Quote :

Simms is a simp. And a bore. And too loud and too hyper and here I am the hammiest Master ever!!!! Well, the Master part's right although incomplete...  
mad2

Simms is awesome and hilarious and delightful.

But then I remember that you know nothing about good villains.

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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 07, 2018 10:36 pm

you know nothing davidalan. grr  :xmas14: :cold:
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 07, 2018 10:42 pm

Did you really need a hint about the favorite character? I knew it immediately. Everyone loves this character.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 07, 2018 10:45 pm

To be honest I forgot about this episode except for this moment and that. But yes he's a wonderful character. He has at least one great line later on that makes me so sad.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 07, 2018 10:54 pm

Donna Noble? Really? I think I said  I thought she would quickly become annoying when I watched the Christmas special Runaway bride.

Amazon's S4 description just spoiled that.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 07, 2018 11:10 pm

Donna Noble is one of the most amazing companions ever. Leaps and bounds better than stupid dishrag Martha. Give her a chance.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 07, 2018 11:57 pm

@Warthawg1 wrote:
Donna Noble? Really? I think I said  I thought she would quickly become annoying when I watched the Christmas special Runaway bride.

Amazon's S4 description just spoiled that.

DONNNNNNAAAAAAAAAAA

As far as what she becomes-- wait and watch.

She IS very polarizing.

People tend to either hate her with the fire of a thousand suns, or rank her among the best companions ever.

I'm the latter.

I fucking love everything about Donna and her character arc.

Which is why I was so hyped when you watched her introductory christmas special. INTRO TO DONNA.

She isn't Rose, and she sure as shit isn't Martha.

She's better than both.

OH OH OH and now that you know she's the companion, I can finally post my favorite Dr Who cartoon:




And I'll leave that here.

I will say, the people who hate Donna tend to be men. The people who love Donna tend to be female. But not in every case. And I have a hunch, a feeling, that you'll be a guy who enjoys Donna.
Rose was super cute, Martha was drop dead gorgeous, Donna is also beautiful but not in a way that is as attractive as the first two companions. She isn't Eye Candy Companion.
But she also isn't Girl Companion Love Interest. Instead of being Strong Woman Character, she's character who happens to be a woman. That's a distinction that is important to me. Her character could EASILY be male and still be the same, just as interesting, just as compelling, doing the same things.
That's kind of why I think you're a guy who can enjoy Donna. Because you have never seemed like you need fictional hot chicks to fulfill your life and can enjoy regular characters who happen to be girls.

And Donna has SO MUCH depth that isn't apparent from the surface. What happens to her... omg. I'm going to stop, no spoilers, but thinking about how she leaves makes me start to cry. Martha got out voluntarily and got out easy. That won't happen again.

I've prob said too much because it's late and I've been drinking while watching S3's three-part finale. But... just go into S4, and Donna, with an open mind. I do maintain that it is the overall best season of the entire show, with S5 being a close runner up.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue May 08, 2018 12:00 am

@Nessess wrote:
Did you really need a hint about the favorite character?  I knew it immediately.  Everyone loves this character.  

It's almost like he was waiting for us, all this time.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue May 08, 2018 12:03 am

There was a post Warty made earlier that made me think of this character. I'll dredge it back up after he watches the episode.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue May 08, 2018 12:33 am

@Warthawg1 wrote:
Utopia


What follows is my real time random thoughts..


This was very solid despite some unexplainables.. 
(How the Master made it year 100 trillion..Yana claimed watch had never worked, but he had never opened it so how would he know)

I feel like both of these things are explainable--

The Master saw the Daleks begin to win the Time War and he ran.  If you're running out of sheer terror, and can go anywhere, where would you go?  The end of the universe.

The second point is explained by perception filter.

Quote :


In this eppy there were nice parallels parallels between Martha and Chantho in that they both have unrequited love for a Time Lord, even though Chantho doesnt know about Yana yet.

“Time Lord, last of. Heard of them? Legend or anything? Not even a myth? Blimey, end of the universe is a bit humbling.”. 

Also a bit humbling to find out you're not the last Time Lord in the universe.
One of the things that I feel like I missed out on, not watching the Classic Series-- since I started post-Time-War with the reboot, I always knew the Doctor as the Last Time Lord.

But the Time War happens in between the Classic Series and the Reboot.

In the Classic, Gallifrey is still around, the Time Lords are still around.  And it didn't occur to me that the Time Lords could be really fucked up.  I love how Jack and Martha and the Doctor are all discussing Yana being a Time Lord and it's like "Oh, another Time Lord, that's awesome!" and the Doctor is like "Well.... depends who it is."

Apparently even in the Classic series, when he wasn't the last of his race, he was already a renegade and had rejected his people, travelling alone.  
Knowing that adds a certain wrinkle to his character.

Quote :


"They say there was time travel back in the old days. I never believed. But what would I know? Stupid old man. Never could keep time. Always late, always lost."

Loved this, and it sort of points to.. foreshadows a reveal of Yana being truly out of place.

Interesting that the Tardis went to the end of time to try and shake off Jack. a fixed point.. the ultimate anti- Tardis.

Jack is so fun.

And, having watched S1 of Torchwood-- Jack's spin-off series that occurs simultaneously with this season, the end of Torchwood S1 being the beginning of the episode "Utopia"-- I appreciate it more now.

Quote :


Some good stuff with Martha and Jack coming to a common ground on the frustrations of dealing with someone both amenable, adorable, yet unknowable.

Davies seems more concerned with dramatic narrative than Moffit who is a bit more detail oriented. 

Oh yes.

Moffatt is a genius.  I freely admit that.
I have major beef with him as a show-runner, mostly with his infatuation with the worst companion ever and how he can't restrain himself from a happy ending.  
I think overall I prefer Davies, though I may be in minority.  Moffatt is generally better as a single-ep writer (as my Top List shows-- while Moffatt wrote my number 1 episode, it's as much the acting from Capaldi as the writing from Moffatt that makes it transcendent).  He writes amazing episodes.  But Moffatt is also a pussy.  He robs emotional moments of their depths.  Moffatt will kill someone a million times and bring them back, just so that no one has to deal with an unhappy ending.  He's terrified of finality.
Davies has more balls.  He's not scared of breaking your heart.  He INTENDS to break your heart and he isn't pulling punches.  
As you say-- Moffatt is good at details.  He really is just a fucking FANTASTIC writer and story-crafter.  He's original.  He's written some of the most iconic episodes ever.
But Davies goes right for your heart, to rip it out and stomp on it.  He's character-oriented.  He makes the characters into people.  Moffatt wouldn't have been able to do what he's done, if he didn't have the foundation of Davies making you love the Doctor so much.  He would never have been able to stretch Matt Fucking Smith over so many seasons without the grounding that Davies did for the character of the Doctor, with all of its overblown drama and emotion.  
Plus I think people underrate Davies as a single-ep writer.  You'll see with S4's Midnight.

Quote :




Like I said.. my random thoughts.

Martha recognizes his voice after he regenerated. That seals the identity, and I knew Saxon would be revealed shortly.

Good job by the actor playing Yana.. pulling off kindly old man and terrifying menace within seconds. Again with the strength of the supporting actors. It must be fantastic as a writer to have this show be so iconic that it attracts this sort of talent.
I can only imagine this guy is some legend of stage.

Yes, the actor IS amazing.

But, I still love Simms the most.  His GLEE.  And how quickly and convincingly he can flip the emotional script.

Quote :


Transition to...
The sound of Drums & Last of the Time Lords.

"What this country needs right now, is a Doctor" Well I can only see this as the beginnings of a trap.

Gases everyone and gives the Nixon thumbs up... lol 

One of the funniest Master scenes.  
"Funny is like this..."

Quote :


The Master character almost has an anti-Christ thing... hypnotic on a massive scale, political, probably gonna subjegate humanity and bring about it's demise... great parallels

Except the Master is above all of your silly human religion.  He is a force unto himself.  He's a Time Lord.  He's a genius.  He's a scared little boy who stared into the reality of space and time and went mad.

Quote :

Martha was an idiot running off and calling everyone...

BUT THAT PHONE CALL.  It's one of my favorite single scenes in the entire show, and why this trio of eps makes my top ten list.  Tennant and Simms talking to each other on the phone, not even in the same room, but the depth and intimacy and emotion they both go through *shivers*

Quote :
[Cabinet room]

(The Master transfers the call to his mobile.)
MASTER: Doctor.

[Underpass]

DOCTOR: Master.

[Cabinet room]

MASTER: I like it when you use my name.

[Underpass]

DOCTOR: You chose it. Psychiatrist's field day.

[Cabinet room]

MASTER: As you chose yours. The man who makes people better. How sanctimonious is that?

SERIOUSLY, THAT EXCHANGE.
The man who makes people better.

I think the thing is, the Doctor has for a while now been this (mostly) benevolent presence above the universe-- last of the Time Lords-- almost a god, righting wrongs and saving people.  Free to move about the universe.  But now here's someone who is NOT a bit in awe of him.  Another Time Lord.  The Master is unimpressed.  And can needle him in just the right spots.

Quote :
[Cabinet room]

MASTER: What did it feel like, though? Two almighty civilisations burning. Oh, tell me, how did that feel?

[Underpass]

DOCTOR: Stop it!
MASTER [OC]: You must have been like God.
DOCTOR: I've been alone ever since. But not anymore. Don't you see? All we've got is each other.

[Cabinet room]

MASTER: Are you asking me out on a date?

[Underpass]

DOCTOR: You could stop this right now. We could leave this planet. We can fight across the constellations, if that's what you want, but not on Earth.

The Doctor, defender of Earth... but willing to leave it all behind-- for the prodigal son.  For the one that has strayed.  
Now, you could say that the Doctor is saying this a WAY of protecting Earth, but I don't thin so.

He's so lonely.  He's so sad.  

And now there is one more person like him.  One person who could really, really understand.  

Quote :

Saxon is a great villain.. I think his humanity (appearance at least) makes him so great an enemy. Maybe I should have said Time Lordness... It's so easy paint Daleks, Cybermen, or alien as villains, but the familiarty of the enemy that looks like you is so much more sinister.


The Doctor is one who ran away...and he still runs...

Ah, yes.  Always running.  <3

Quote :


"It's like when you fancy someone and they don't even know you exist" Jack says "you too" or something similar
...more shared issues about the Doctor between Jack and Martha


One thing I love about this show is how it attempts to recreate the British world dominance. The eyes of the world are always on England, and even 'Merica is should be forced to subjugate itself. Then 'Merica comes in as usual all heavy handed

Then here near the end... more anti-Christ.. Christ is God and the anti-Christ is the anti-God. Then there is the dialogue about looking down on what he has caused to be, and it is good... but he is talking about destruction instead of creation. The true "anti".

Moving on to LOTTL

Martha still holds a fantasy that her and the Doctor were a thing.. sad. I see the dishrag thing..

I do feel, upon rewatching, that I judge Martha too harshly.

And, again, she met him in a high stress situation in which he planted that kiss on her, her heart never stood a chance.  I think she fell for him in that moment.

Poor beautiful dishrag.

Quote :


Then the Doctor has become Gollum.

LMFAO

Quote :


As they dissect the sphere... 6 billion of them were mentioned... pretty sure that is the same number from Utopia. Nice..


Nice when time was reversing the shout out to Superman the earth spinning in reverse. Gotta save Lois!

At the end the Doctor was so lonely and so guilty for his species he wanted the Master to regenerate. How strong does that resonate.. He can't kill that which he should kill..
He has killed enough of his own, and he is so lonely for some truly relatable companionship...

This is one of the most heart-wrenching moments of the show.  Despite everything the Master has done, again, it's the ONE person who could really know the Doctor, really understand him, the ONE person who is even remotely on his level.  

A line that haunts me is Rose's from "Father's Day" when the Doctor is about to leave her and she says that she knows he will wait around for her to return:  "I know how sad you are."  

FUCK, he's so sad.  He's so lonely.

And his face as the Master chooses death over imprisonment, "REGENERATE!  REGENERATE!"  he breaks my heart.  

Alone again.

Quote :


Amazing how this show can make the Doctor so silly, yet still somehow developed this level of complexity and depth.

Yep.

Quote :


Then there it is... Jack Harkness and his almost immortality is the face of Boe.. holy hell. I hope they leave that exactly as it stands here, and never explain or verify it further. 

55 55 55  FACE OF BOE 55 55  55

And your wish is granted.  They leave it there.  And it's awesome.

Quote :


Martha Jones saved the world, and wow... left the Tardis. Is that truly it?? She's done as companion? At least she realized shoe was a dishrag...

... at least she left an explanation, and in his own way the Doctor said "no" yet again.

... and then like that, he was gone.. presumably he will
find a new companion yet again...

Martha the Lovely Dishrag, like I said, she is the only companion to choose to leave of her own will, and she has the gentlest ending.  The happiest ending.  

The rest are... not so happy.

Quote :


I don't know anything about the tV show Torchwood, but I must ask if Jack Harkness is a recurring character on it??

He's the main character.  I went through all these years/seasons not watching it, but have just in the past few weeks started.  It's not as good as Doctor Who, although Jack is a great character and it's a fairly fun show.

Quote :

I liked this 3 part ending tremendously, but in a distinctively different way than something like Blink. The shifting of creative forces for this show creates tremendous challenges, but also tremendous reward.

<3 Davies <3[/quote]
[/quote]
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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue May 08, 2018 1:31 am

Well the two weaker post-Utopia episodes are over. The Master screams and overacts a lot and then dies with the Dr mourning over him and by extension the other extinct Timelords as though over the Bubonic Plague, The Nazis, or a pack of hyenas. Dr get a grip. Go to some shrink and deal with your delusional PTSD because compared to how much time you spend with humans and other species you bump into you spend a miniscule amount of time with your own kind. Why? Watch the Five Doctors and you'll know why. They may live on a beautiful planet but they're raging autocrats. Even Dishrag Martha has way more fight and a sense of justice than all the non-Dr timelords put together. And speaking of someone else with fight and a sense of justice, bring on Donna Noble. Leave the faux Master and the other Timelords in their restful horizontal Tardises. Bring on Donna Noble.

love
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue May 08, 2018 1:44 am

@davidalan wrote:
And speaking of someone else with fight and a sense of justice, bring on Donna Noble. Leave the faux Master and the other Timelords in their restful horizontal Tardises. Bring on Donna Noble.

love

At least not ALL of your opinions are stupid.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue May 08, 2018 2:23 am

Well, how benevolent of you to recognize it. grin
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue May 08, 2018 8:46 pm

I'm going to watch Voyage of the Damned tonight. I think I've only seen it 1-2 times. Maybe only once. It's pretty memorable in some parts but I'm vague on the details.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue May 08, 2018 8:58 pm

nI will watch it a bit later this eve
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue May 08, 2018 9:01 pm

Yay.

It's a Christmas ep, so a bit of goofiness as always, but I'm looking forward to the rewatch.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed May 09, 2018 5:10 pm

I don't have much commentary. It was good fun, but having a one-off companion like Astrid doesn't really develop much interpersonal drama.

I did note however that the Doctor has a thing for blondes.
You know when he looked at her he was thinking of Rose, not
Martha.

For a minute there the whole episode had a Westworld vibe when the robots started going
wonky, and it was nice that the angels were referred to as "hosts"... As in "hosts of heavenly
angels. 

It was also funny that everyone had fled London because of it being Christmas... that
made me chuckle.

Another thing was when they had Adele singing as the meteor shower approached.

I thought they did a good job with the parallels between space-liner Titanic and the real
Titanic.

It had its ups and downs. The angels lifting the Doctor up as if they were ascending to
heaven seemed weird, but it doesn't matter much.

It was a fun little diversion, but I am ready for the real S4.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed May 09, 2018 6:09 pm

@Warthawg1 wrote:
I don't have much commentary. It was good fun, but having a one-off companion like Astrid doesn't really develop much interpersonal drama.

I did note however that the Doctor has a thing for blondes.
You know when he looked at her he was thinking of Rose, not
Martha.

For a minute there the whole episode had a Westworld vibe when the robots started going
wonky, and it was nice that the angels were referred to as "hosts"... As in "hosts of heavenly
angels. 

It was also funny that everyone had fled London because of it being Christmas... that
made me chuckle.

EXCEPT WILFRED MOTT AND THE QUEEN.

Since he's credited by name on Amazon, I don't think it's a spoiler to just mention that the old guy's name is Wilfred Mott. Also known as simply "Wilf."

Quote :


Another thing was when they had Adele singing as the meteor shower approached.

I thought they did a good job with the parallels between space-liner Titanic and the real
Titanic.

It had its ups and downs. The angels lifting the Doctor up as if they were ascending to
heaven seemed weird, but it doesn't matter much.

It was a fun little diversion, but I am ready for the real S4.

I'm ready for you to be ready for the real S4 Very Happy

I watched the first two episodes last night, loving it.

And then looked at the episode list and re-realized how much I love this season. There are two episodes that are stinkers, but SO MUCH good stuff. Not like S3 with its run of crap episodes.

As far as Voyage of the Damned, like you said, fun but not much commentary.

I love how Asshole Rich Guy lives and then has a happy ending and never gets any "come-uppance." That's how the universe works sometimes. Sometimes good things happen to bad people.

But Tennant was so much fun to watch on his own, without a companion (because like you said, Astrid doesn't count). When he was confronting Max, he was so quintessentially 10, brilliant and a bit manic. He was even licking stuff in this ep. "Allons-y, Alonzo!" We're far enough away from 9 now that 10 has really grown into himself, and right now he's in his prime. Travelling around, saving people, being delightfully clever, having sad eyes, and running all over the place.

The only thing more fun than Tennant on his own, is Tennant with Donna.

The first ep of S4, "Partners in Crime" is a goofy but fun New-Companion-Intro (or, Re-Intro, in this case), and then shit gets heavy real quick. "Pompeii" and "Planet of the Ood" are both fucking fantastic.

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed May 09, 2018 7:01 pm

I like Partners in Crime. It's like the hospital opener from last season. Wacky hyper and introductory.

But Pompeii and Ood. Marvelous.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu May 10, 2018 12:29 am

Partners in Crime...


  Eh.. As you have probably figured out, I tend to prefer the more serious episodes that contain a bit
more gravitas than this. Now don't get me wrong... It's not that I totally dislike the lighter fare.. it's just
that I prefer it when I need a break so it is an issue of timing. I get it though.. introductory eppy and
all that, so onto the show.

I didn't care much for the Benny Hill prairie dogging at the beginning.. just a wee bit too cute for me.


I did however like the Matron and the Glengarry Glen Ross "get me 100 sales" moment. I sort if wanted
to here her yell "put that coffee down!!" at someone.

Other things I liked were "It's like you were never there", something no previous companion has said ever.
Cinematically this signals at the least that their relationship will be different.

I loved gramps, and if I'm not mistaken wasn't he the old man who remained in town over Christmas?

Now while most of this was light or even a bit silly, the last 5 minutes and the dialogue between Donna and
the Doctor was really solid. The Doctor can't take another one pining after him, but so desperately wants a
friend. Donna so desperately wants to experience what he and the TARDIS can offer, but she seems none
to keen on any romance..

So enter Donna Noble... and the name doesn't escape notice. I imagine she will be quite that by
the end of her run.

Then there she was... I knew something was up from the angle of the shot.. how they were obviously hiding
the face...

and then, Rose
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu May 10, 2018 7:45 am

@Warthawg1 wrote:
Partners in Crime...


  Eh.. As you have probably figured out, I tend to prefer the more serious episodes that contain a bit
more gravitas than this. Now don't get me wrong... It's not that I totally dislike the lighter fare.. it's just
that I prefer it when I need a break so it is an issue of timing. I get it though.. introductory eppy and
all that, so onto the show.

I didn't care much for the Benny Hill prairie dogging at the beginning.. just a wee bit too cute for me.

Yes, I've gotten a feel for what you like, by now.

You will like the next two episodes.  

And I'm so excited for you to get to "Midnight," I can't even.

Quote :



I did however like the Matron and the Glengarry Glen Ross "get me 100 sales" moment. I sort if wanted
to here her yell "put that coffee down!!" at someone.

Fun character with a bad end.  The adipose are the most adorable aliens ever, though.

I did love the moment that the Doctor and Donna saw each other, though, and their silent exchange.  Catherine Tate was a fairly well-known comedic actress in the UK before being cast as Donna, and the writers use that a bit.


Quote :

Other things I liked were "It's like you were never there", something no previous companion has said ever.
Cinematically this signals at the least that their relationship will be different.

I loved gramps, and if I'm not mistaken wasn't he the old man who remained in town over Christmas?

Indeed he was.  That old man, sir, is WILFRED FUCKING MOTT, and you love him because he's the greatest <3 <3 <3 I mostly rewatched "Voyage of the Damned" so that I could meet him again for the first time in that little three minute scene.

And his awesome makes up for Donna's mom being the second-shittiest Companion Mom in the show (first place will always be Martha's mom who tried to sell her own daughter out to Saxon).  

Quote :

Now while most of this was light or even a bit silly, the last 5 minutes and the dialogue between Donna and
the Doctor was really solid. The Doctor can't take another one pining after him, but so desperately wants a
friend. Donna so desperately wants to experience what he and the TARDIS can offer, but she seems none
to keen on any romance..

"YOU'RE NOT MATING WITH ME, SUNSHINE!"

Part of what makes this season so fantastic is that we don't have to deal with the love-interest stuff.  We did that with Rose, even more pathetically with Martha, and while I enjoy romantic storylines in my sci-fi, having an actual friendship-- "just mates"-- allows for a more interesting and fresh dynamic.  
Donna isn't my all-time favorite companion-- the next ones get that title-- but she and 10 are my all-time favorite Doctor/companion pairing.  They're so great.

And yeah.  Like Donna said in her first episode, the christmas special, "Sometimes you need someone to make you stop."
Since she's not fawning over him, she's free to be more critical of him and his decisions.  And since he's Peak 10 right now, the Doctor might not always be making responsible decisions.

And I recall your attention to the cartoon I posted earlier  55
The Doctor has his Rebound Companion, so while he is never "over" Rose, he's now ready to really care about someone and go off and have adventures.  He's so excited to have Donna with him, lol.  

Quote :

So enter Donna Noble... and the name doesn't escape notice. I imagine she will be quite that by
the end of her run.

Christmas Special flashback:




Quote :

Then there she was... I knew something was up from the angle of the shot.. how they were obviously hiding
the face...

and then, Rose

I knew as soon as I saw the hair.

Rose, for a moment, who walks off and then vanishes into thin air.

Fuck I love this season.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu May 10, 2018 6:21 pm

Are you going to watch Pompeii tonight?
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu May 10, 2018 6:21 pm

There is one line in particular I want to see if you comment on.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu May 10, 2018 10:21 pm

I am going to try, but it's going to be a bit late... probably will start
it around 11:30
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu May 10, 2018 10:26 pm

I will literally lose sleep for this.
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