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 Wartys Dr. Who First Watch

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Warthawg1

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:47 pm

Yeah... I just finished Amy's choice and it was far from Doctor lite. He was in every scene and in
some ways you could say it was Doctor heavy. With his dark side there, it was almost a doubling 
up of The Doctor.

I enjoyed it. 

"How do you fight off the self-harm?" lol

There was solid development of the love between Rory and Amy.

I liked The Dream Lord part of The Doctor taunting himself with
some of the darker corners of himself. It was also interesting
that it was essentially The Doctor, maybe even unwittingly, forcing
Amy to address the big red elephant in the middle of the room.
That had to be addressed... who does Amy really want.

I doubt it is on the top of anyone's list and certainly not mine, but
Doctor Who has offered up much worse than this. It also seemed
to serve a valid purpose.
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TBC

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:27 am

Okay, I did say I skipped it in my rewatch. I wasn't interested in watching it again because it was there was not much on the main plot to it. A bad acid trip from some pollen, the Doctor's subconscious, result is an "over there somewhere" episode that gives a little bit of insight into this Doctor and his latest companions but really is not good for anything else.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:16 pm

Rewatching Vampires of Venice right now.

The line, from the vampire's butler: "And so in the memory of the children lost to the silence" Oh Moffat, you motherfucker 55
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:06 am

The Hungry Earth and Cold Blood

Briefly....

Classic Doctor Who type story here, up until the very end.

I enjoyed the Silurians or whatever the spelling is, and their
Sleestack army. Alaya was great... and kinda hot, ya know.. for
a lizard.

Then the ending... as Doctor Who went there and killed off Rory.
That was sort of effed up, especially after Amy chose him and all. To
me this sort of points to why the previous episode was important and
sorry TBC my friend, we will have to agree to disagree about that.

So Rory is gone and so is the entire Rory/Amy relationship...
never happened. You can't help but draw parallels with Donna Noble:
The tremendous loss, but the victim isn't even aware of what they
lost.

Now onto this crack in time... I am beginning to wonder if The Doctor 
didn't somehow cause it with all his crossing of timelines. I also wonder
if the fact it grabbed Rory isn't the out that will allow him to return.

I also wonder if at some point Amy will remember. I can't see them
just replicating the and she lived happily ever after never knowing 
thing they did with Donna Noble.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:33 am

:) I want to comment but I can't, because I don't want to spoil you.

But, this is Moffat stuff. We're in a whole new thing now.

You're smart.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:36 am

But also the repercussions, omg... we're not dropping Amy off at home like "have a good life."

I need to rewatch to remember what happens, in what order (I still need to rewatch Amy's Choice and then this two-parter to catch up to you), but.... repercussions. Big season-long arcs. Stuff happening.


I will say, the next episode.... Vincent and the Doctor.... that's on my list, Warty.

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TBC

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:57 pm

It's on my list of "episodes too painful to rewatch".

And Warty, Amy choosing Rory isn't negated by his being removed from the time-space continuum. Just have to close the crack and Ol' Rory will be right as rain, the rest of the season after "Vincent and the Doctor" gets to that. But this is Stephen Moffatt's bailiwick and it's not ever that straightforward. Keep watching, Bro.
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Warthawg1

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:16 pm

I don't think I ever thought Amy choosing Rory was negated.

I just said "Amy's Choice" was an important episode because it increased the impact
of his loss during this most recent two-parter. 

As for what happens in subsequent episodes... I can't speak to that as I am
not commenting with the benefit of hindsight. I do however plan to keep watching.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:42 pm

Vincent and the Doctor...

Wow... okay.. the monster was a bit hokey.. didn't seem to terrifying when you can hold it off with a chair and a stick. That being said, I move on to the beautiful and touching. 

The Doctor is trying to rid himself of guilt by taking Amy to all of these wonderful places, and that is how we ultimately end up in Vincent's world.

I loved how the show opened with the wheatfield and the crows. That was a precursor to how stylistically wonderful this episode would be. I loved the actors portrayal of Van Gogh's madness, and the artist in general.

Interestingly only Van Gogh can see the killer rooster thingy, which plays into the scenes where we see that he sees things in the world that most of us can't see at all. When they all looked up into the sky and as he described what he saw we see the night sky turn into Starry Night was just... stunning.

There was so much going on with perception in this episode..framing and light.. This will ultimately tie in nicely to the overall season story arc. What we find out with this monster was a bit of a perception thing as well... turns out it was just blind, alone, frightened... all too familiar.

In the end.. in a fantastic, beautiful, kick in the emotional nut-sack, we see a play on a larger theme in that The Doctor was able to 
enrich Van Gogh's life.... but he couldn't make the emotional demons just disappear and what happened... happened again.

I don't know how it play's into the short term story, but in the overall context of Doctor Who.. this was just wonderful. Beautiful... wonderful.. emotional... all the things art is supposed to be, this was.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:14 pm

While the Doctor was there, maybe he could have helped Van Gogh sell a painting or two??? Van Gogh was just way ahead of his time. Too early for modern art chic.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:26 pm

It happens with many artists.... only famous after they are gone.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:51 am

Van Gogh was an excellent artist who painted what he wanted to, never mind that it was not what was in the current vogue. He was also probably someone who had severe clinical depression many years before there was even a profession to make that diagnosis. The two are completely independent of one another, but both can be labeled as contributing factors to his suicide.

And I don't know about helping him to sell a couple of paintings or convincing him to not kill himself....if you are going to monkey with the timeline why not go all in, buy one at a good price, enough that he can afford to move to Marseilles and rent a villa and then sell it in Nice six months later the next day, tell the buyer they guy who painted it has a lot more even better.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:37 am

@Warthawg1 wrote:

I don't know how it play's into the short term story, but in the overall context of Doctor Who.. this was just wonderful. Beautiful... wonderful.. emotional... all the things art is supposed to be, this was.

Yep.

This ep was pretty damn "stand-alone." Only part that ties into events at all is the blink-and-you-miss-it lines:
Quote :
AMY: I'm sorry you're so sad.
VINCENT: But I'm not. Sometimes these moods torture me for weeks, for months. But I'm good now. If Amy Pond can soldier on, then so can Vincent Van Gogh.
AMY: I'm not soldiering on. I'm fine.
VINCENT: Oh, Amy. I hear the song of your sadness. You've lost someone, I think.
AMY: I'm not sad.
VINCENT: Then why are you crying?
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3
Some part of her knows what she's lost.

But yes. Just for beauty's sake, this ep will always be in my top 10.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:38 am

Next ep is pretty terrible, fair warning.

But the two part finale is REALLY something.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:09 am

I actually like the next one. Maybe, as Kelly says, I am all about 11. Balderdash, of course. I took immediately to Capaldi. Probably because he played closer to Pertwee than any of the "new" Doctors had.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:22 am

I've never watched the classics, so, judging the New Doctors on their merits... Capaldi is amazing, Matt Smith... meh.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:01 pm

Speaking of the classics, it was cool seeing some of the classic doctors faces on his identification
thingy.

I have wondered if I will like Capaldi when his time rolls around, but after ADHD Matt Smith I
think I will welcome him.

I'm not saying I hate the guy, but his manic behavior at times seems to be distracting. Sometimes
less is more and more is just too much.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:25 pm

@Warthawg1 wrote:
Speaking of the classics, it was cool seeing some of the classic doctors faces on his identification
thingy.

I have wondered if I will like Capaldi when his time rolls around, but after ADHD Matt Smith I
think I will welcome him.

I'm not saying I hate the guy, but his manic behavior at times seems to be distracting. Sometimes
less is more and more is just too much.

12 was definitely a breath of fresh air to start.

But I began to love him for himself pretty quickly.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:40 pm

Oh I forgot to mention I did watch The Lodger last night.

I sort of forgot I had seen it, but now I remember why "manic"
was a bit fresh on my mind..

It was filler.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:14 pm

Yep.

That's all that needs to be said, imo.

Now enjoy the fuck out of the Pandorica.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:19 pm

By the way, from S4, "Silence in the Library":

Quote :

RIVER: Okay, shall we do diaries, then? Where are we this time? Er, going by your face, I'd say it's early days for you, yeah? So, er, crash of the Byzantium. Have we done that yet? Obviously ringing no bells. Right. Oh, picnic at Asgard. Have we done Asgard yet? Obviously not. Blimey, very early days, then. Whoo, life with a time traveller. Never knew it could be such hard work. Look at you. Oh, you're young.

S5, Flesh and Stone:

Quote :

RIVER: It's a long story. Doctor. It can't be told, it has to be lived. No sneak previews. Well, except for this one. You'll see me again quite soon, when the Pandorica opens.
DOCTOR: The Pandorica. Ha! That's a fairy tale.
RIVER: Doctor, aren't we all? I'll see you there.
DOCTOR: I look forward to it.
RIVER: I remember it well.

Spoilers.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:10 am

Well now... as The Big Bang begins, i think I can look back and
claim I might have luckily guessed a couple of things correctly.

Proving again the old adage about a blind squirrel!

Let me finish this..
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:34 am

RORY
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:56 am

I still tell you, I am not so much about 11, although I like him a little better than 10, as I am about Moffat. Might be that my opinion of 10 is hampered by Davies and his plethora of completely worthless episodes. And then there is the matter of Companions. If I had to make a mathematical equation it would look something like this:

(Martha x Donna)^3 < Amy


and Rory is also pretty cool.

For Kelly's eyes only. Oh, and BA as well:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:25 am

@Warthawg1 wrote:
Oh I forgot to mention I did watch The Lodger last night.

I sort of forgot I had seen it, but now I remember why "manic"
was a bit fresh on my mind..

It was filler.

The Lodger leads my list as the worst written episode,  I couldn't even get through it.  It's as though this was the writer's first exposure to the series and how the Doctor typically behaves.  

In general, it's always dangerous travelling with the Doctor, but there was a level of confidence that previous Doctors had which is missing with this Doctor.  The companions also had confidence that the Doctor knew his enemy and would use his vast knowledge to try to defeat them.  Unfortunately this Doctor's level of incompetence does nothing but add to the danger facing his companions.

Up through 11's run, I think Moffat is a better writer than a Showrunner.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:17 pm

One of my issues with both Moffatt and Davies...in the classic show there was never so much of putting Companions in danger without the Doctor himself being in danger. Yes, some died...Adric for instance. In that case he put himself into that position as an act of redemption because he'd originally started hanging around the Doctor, Nyssa and Tegan under false pretense but after time figured out the Doctor was not the bad guy he'd been led to believe initially. But it goes back to what I said about Davies turning The Doctor into Bruce Willis with a blue box and a glowing adult toy. "Nice to meet you, Rose Tyler. Run for your life!"
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:26 am

@Warthawg1 wrote:
Well now... as The Big Bang begins, i think I can look back and
claim I might have luckily guessed a couple of things correctly.

Proving again the old adage about a blind squirrel!

Let me finish this..

I need updates.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:57 pm

I'm not sure I can put it all into words.

This was by far the most incredibly crafted story arc so far, and it's not even close. I think if I were to re-watch this season I would pick up on some things in earlier episodes that I would understand better. I definitely picked up on Doctor in a jacket from the weeping angels episode, but I am sore there is more I missed.

These episodes them selves were intricate at a level that I don't think Davies could ever touch. The Fez was a nice touch to help me in retrospect know what was going on, and just for the record... Fezzes are cool.

Rory waiting 2000 years - guarding the Pandorica was incredibly powerful. The replay of scenes and
The Doctor saying he hates reruns... so many little things.

Plus to boot, I genuinely "got" this version of The Doctor.... his speech to the sleeping Amelia was
fantastic, and delivered with such appropriate emotion.

I think this is an season ending 2 parter where I will find more to say as time passes and I think about them more, but they were pretty incredible.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:01 pm

I loved the "I'm thirsty" gag, that was pretty hilarious.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:22 pm

Yes.. it was funny and quite clever.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:58 pm

I'm a bit behind you, so I watched "Pandorica Opens" last night, and am going to watch "Big Bang" tonight, and come in with detailed posts.

But yes. I go back and forth as to which is better as a season-long arc, S5 or S6.

S5 is wrapped up with a nice little bow, though (although the "Silence falls" is still there as a teaser). And, after I'd watched, I had to go back to "Time of Angels" to see if that scene actually DID happen just like that (with the Doctor telling Amy "remember what I said") and it totally did.

There is a bit of goofy/campy stuff-- like the "something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue"-- but Moffat's overall genius and Karen Gillan's overall awesomeness as Amy Pond combine to pull it off enough so that I just kind of grin instead of cringe.

I will say, you are in the Love-Affair-With-Moffat time period, where he can basically fucking do no wrong and everything he does is amazing. That extends into S6, imo. But it doesn't last (again, my opinion). He's just finished his last season as show-runner in present time, and I'm VERY excited that he's gone, as much as I mourn 12 going out with him.

One of my major beefs with him is actually highlighted in this season-- he can't let dead be dead. Moffat is obsessed with resurrections. It cheapens things. I still maintain that Davies at his best is able to evoke more emotional depth. Right now Amy and Rory as actors are saving Moffat from the worst of that, but, you know.

I think part of what makes S5 and S6 so good is that Moffat had been writing for the show since S1, and had LOTS of ideas and created lots of hints and story-starters in his episodes, so he already had some intricate plotting of his own devising, just sitting and waiting for him (especially as it involves River).
I think he had two seasons' worth of great plot that he'd planned out far in advance. You've just finished one of them.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:46 pm

"But it doesn't last"

The star that burns brightest....

I am admittedly in a love triangle with Moffat, Rory, and Amy... I sit in the center of the triangle with those
points around me.

I can agree that Davies has done a better job of ripping my emotional soul out, but upon first watch I have
gravitated towards Moffat's consistency and his ability to draw my attention to his attention to little details.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:31 pm

@Warthawg1 wrote:


I am admittedly in a love triangle with Moffat, Rory, and Amy... I sit in the center of the triangle with those
points around me.

LOL, aren't we all.
The Ponds <3

They actually get even better.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:49 pm

It's all about Amy ,Rory and River, the Doctor's a side show.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:22 pm

I loved the exchange where the Doctor sort of gets to the point of Amy not being more important than entire universes. He hasn't "the time" to save Amy with so much more at stake, but a guy with a time-vortex manipulator on his wrist can make the time... and Rory's reaction about what Amy means to
him... wonderful.

Also... The Nesine or whatever got so much from Amy's memory.... they got more than they bargained
for. They got a lot more Rory than they expected. As he had become such a soul-mate with Amy, a bit
of his soul came into their plastic creation.

I think I mentioned that I thought the Doctor was in part responsible for the cracks in time with some of
his cavalier crossing of time lines. I guess that was sort of in the right direction as it was his exploding
Tardis causing them.

Doctor: "Why do you have to be so human?"

Rory: "Because right now, I'm not."
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:31 pm

@Warthawg1 wrote:
I loved the exchange where the Doctor sort of gets to the point of Amy not being more important than entire universes. He hasn't "the time" to save Amy with so much more at stake, but a guy with a time-vortex manipulator on his wrist can make the time... and Rory's reaction about what Amy means to
him... wonderful.

The moment we all fell in love with Rory and never looked back:



Quote :

Also... The Nesine or whatever got so much from Amy's memory.... they got more than they bargained
for. They got a lot more Rory than they expected. As he had become such a soul-mate with Amy, a bit
of his soul came into their plastic creation.

I think I mentioned that I thought the Doctor was in part responsible for the cracks in time with some of
his cavalier crossing of time lines. I guess that was sort of in the right direction as it was his exploding
Tardis causing them.

Doctor: "Why do you have to be so human?"

Rory: "Because right now, I'm not."

If we talk any more about Rory and Amy's relationship, I'm going to get too emotional.

They are everything. When I'd had too much wine a couple weeks ago and was on here ranting "These seasons are going to make you learn again what love is!" I was talking about them 55 55 55
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:56 pm

You didn't really need to point that out. I think I figured that out by now all on my own! lol
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:08 pm

I also loved this, and I think Vonne knows why...

"I'll be a story in your head. That's okay. We're all stories in the end."
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:35 pm

@Warthawg1 wrote:
I also loved this, and I think Vonne knows why...

"I'll be a story in your head. That's okay. We're all stories in the end."

Yes. :)

It's a shame that you probably wouldn't like Supernatural. The show creator rips off Sandman constantly, left and right, so many references. It was like S2 before I finally googled "Supernatural Sandman" and up came an interview where the show creator flat out says that Sandman was his favorite series and he totally steals from it all the time.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:36 pm

OMG I just realized that "Impossible Astronaut" / "Day of the Moon" is your next episode.

S6 stuff. Strap in.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:06 pm

"I'm River song... check your records again."

"Meeercy"
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:22 pm

LMAO, I was just at that point in "Big Bang."

This episode is even wilder and more enjoyable than I remembered.

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:37 am

Okay. Where to start.

The main thing that strikes me is not 11 finally growing into himself a bit, or Moffat's ridiculously great sense of dramatic pacing and tension, or Rory being perfect, but the difference between how Davies treats time travel and how Moffat treats time travel.

Davies: "If you save someone who was supposed to die, bad CGI monsters will come and eat up the universe. Can't change stuff. FIXED POINT IN TIME. FIXED POINT IN TIME."
Moffat: "WHEEEEEEEEEEE"

Davies is a complete conservative, shying away from the stickier known issues with time travel narratives and attempting to have things makes sense and follow rules, while Moffat rips up the rules, puts them in his kiddie pool, and splashes around in them.

So, while Moffat's stuff is completely absurd and WRONG in a logical sense, it's a hell of a lot of fun in a story-telling sense. He started that with "Blink" and having the video communication where the Doctor is reading from a script that was written by someone observing the conversation (wibbly wobbly, timey wimey). Here, he gets downright gleeful with this shit. All of the popping around with the vortex manipulator, talking to future versions of himself, timestreams crossing all willy nilly, causal chain out the window, let's get wild with it.
I mean, this is the guy who created the character of River Song, and the concept of she and the Doctor circling towards their relationship from opposite ends of time. Which is, admittedly, still one of the coolest fucking things I've ever heard of. They are always out of sync with one another-- he met her the day she died. They know each others' future but can't talk about it. He works his way to the beginning of their relationship as she works her way towards the end of it but backwards. Wild.

Of course I have my gripes, mainly that none of this shit makes any sense and it's all impossible. Moffat is big into "impossible" and sails his way past a million instances of suspension of disbelief just by force of will. Moffat says "I'll explode the universe and kill the Doctor and then blink him back into existence by Amy remembering him, and you'll fucking buy it because it's great" and so you buy it.

For all his faults, he's a hell of a salesman.

So, notable things:

First, the aforementioned opening with Rory punching the Doctor in the face for insinuating that Amy is not the most important thing in the universe.

The magic of the Ponds is hard to define, but it's always there, and for me it started at that moment. Rory was just the male nurse (oh, and the analysis of symbolism that can be done there) who was kind of funny, with the silly face whose nuptials Amy was running away from but kind of into but kind of not, then he got sucked into a crack in time and never existed.
But, when he returns as plastic but with enough of Rory's soul in him, he shows you why Amy ever agreed to marry him in the first place.

Quote :
RORY: This box needs a guard. I killed the last one.
DOCTOR: No. Rory, no. Don't even think about it.
RORY: She'll be all alone.
DOCTOR: She won't feel it.
RORY: You bet she won't.
DOCTOR: Two thousand years, Rory. You won't even sleep. you'd be conscious every second. It would drive you mad.
RORY: Will she be safer if I stay? Look me in the eye and tell me she wouldn't be safer.
DOCTOR: Rory, you
RORY: Answer me!
DOCTOR: Yes. Obviously.
RORY: Then how could I leave her?

Thing is, Amy is-- as we've pointed out-- the complete package. Thing is, basically no one deserves Amy. She's insanely gorgeous, she's absurdly sexy, AND she has this amazing personality with wit and empathy and humor and guts. She's out of basically everyone's league. Definitely out of goofy old Rory's league.

But Rory is the one who gets her. Because he deserves it. Because behind that silly face is a type of steadfast patience that could wear down mountains, and he doesn't waver. His love for her can wait 2000 years. Rory is possibly the strongest character in the entire show.

All companions have their detractors, and while Amy doesn't have as many haters as, say, Donna, she has a fair amount, and most of them hate her for one thing-- "She treats Rory like shit!" Granted, she does often take him for granted. Granted, she is trying to fuck a time travelling alien the night before she's supposed to marry him. Granted, she can be flighty and difficult. But she made her choice, and she makes it over and over again-- it's always Rory. He's her Constant.

Like, I wish I could even describe how hard I relate to them, except that Jason has never been plastic and we don't travel through time and space getting in adventures (except in the normal way).

Anyway.

Then there's River:

Quote :
(River is forever running to the doors, opening them and seeing the rock wall.)
RIVER: I'm sorry, my love.
(Scene repeats, then the Doctor is standing there.)
DOCTOR: Hi, honey. I'm home.
RIVER: And what sort of time do you call this?

I can't relate to this relationship, because neither Jason or I are anywhere near this badass 55 55 55

Not to be a "spoiler," but I don't think I will be, because it's basically implied in River's first ep / death ep, when Donna goes "Look at you two, squabbling like an old married couple!" and they exchange glances-- and then River whispers the Doctor's name in his ear: "There's only one reason I would ever tell anyone my name. There's only one time I could."

If it wasn't obvious, we have this exchange at the end:
Quote :
DOCTOR: Are you married, River?
RIVER: Are you asking?
DOCTOR: Yes.
RIVER: Yes.
DOCTOR: No, hang on. Did you think I was asking you to marry me, or or or asking if you were married?
RIVER: Yes.
DOCTOR: No, but was that yes, or yes?
RIVER: Yes.

<3 Fuck, but I love them. <3

And River is amazing. Don't listen to Boonian, he has terrible wrong opinions about so many things.

She's like the Doctor if he was a really badass chick who didn't mind using guns a lot.

I love River's casual but potent sexuality and how ironically she uses it ( "I dated a Nestene duplicate once. Swappable head. It did keep things fresh."-- and the hallucinogenic lipstick always cracks me up), she's devoted to the Doctor but has no issue setting his ass straight when he's being ridiculous, and when shit gets complicated and the Doctor is rambling on with his light-speed brain and everyone else is just looking confused, she's right on top of things and gets what he's talking about. And she isn't one of his "companions," she plays by her own rules-- enough so that she can make a Dalek beg for mercy. The Doctor and Rose were beautiful and I will always love that pairing, but with the Doctor and River-- she's WAY on his level, she can fly the Tardis, and she is meeting him as an equal instead of as a supplicant. So many sparks flying.
Add that on to the inherent tragedy that they both have an unspoken knowledge of how it "ends," from different timeline perspectives, and I just have to slow-clap Moffat for giving us this.

More in S6. Consistent with the nature of River, she only pops up occasionally, but S6 is definitely the season of River.

And:

Quote :

AMY: But he was dead.
RIVER: Who told you that?
AMY: He did.
RIVER: Rule one. The Doctor lies.

Love this. We've known it the whole time, but I believe this the first time that we're introduced to Rule One. The Doctor lies.

What else. The awesomeness of the Doctor travelling back through his timeline before death, and this scene:
Quote :
DOCTOR: Amy, you need to start trusting me. It's never been more important.
AMY: But you don't always tell me the truth.
DOCTOR: If I always told you the truth, I wouldn't need you to trust me.
AMY: Doctor, the crack in my wall. How can it be here?
DOCTOR: I don't know yet but I'm working it out. Now, listen. Remember what I told you when you were seven?
AMY: What did you tell me?
DOCTOR: No. No, that's not the point. You have to remember.
AMY: Remember what? Doctor? Doctor?

It makes "Time of Angels" / "Flesh and Stone" even that much cooler on the rewatch. Damn Moffat and his long games.

Quote :
I'll be a story in your head. But that's okay. We're all stories in the end. Just make it a good one, eh?

Quoting this line again because it's worth it.

Quote :

[Amy's bedroom]

AMY: Do you feel like there's a great big thing in your head, and you feel like you should remember it, but you can't?

[Rory's home]

RORY: Yep.

[Amy's bedroom]

AMY: Are you just saying yes because you're scared of me?
RORY [OC]: Yep.
AMY: I love you.
RORY [OC]: Yep.

Amy and Rory <3

Quote :

AMY: Sorry. Sorry, everyone. But when I was a kid, I had an imaginary friend.
TABETHA: Oh no, not this again.
AMY: The raggedy Doctor. My raggedy Doctor. But he wasn't imaginary, he was real.
TABETHA: The psychiatrists we sent her to.

LMFAOOOO

Quote :
AMY: Something old. Something new. Something borrowed. Something blue.

So corny and absurd. But Moffat's a hell of a salesman. I always buy it.

Quote :
DOCTOR: Amelia, from now on I shall be leaving the kissing duties to the brand new Mister Pond.
RORY: No, I'm not Mister Pond. That's not how it works.
DOCTOR: Yeah, it is.
RORY: Yeah, it is.

And there we have it. The Ponds.
And Rory is officially a Companion. It's not 11 and Amy, it's 11 and the Ponds. And they shine magnificent.

Quote :
DOCTOR: Two thousand years. The boy who waited. Good on you, mate.

So. Now. S6 stuff. Like I said, really... strap in. Shit gets wild.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:39 am

Oh, and this episode reminds me of my conviction that if my kids ever force me to get a dog, I'm naming it Pond, just so that I can train it to respond to "Come along, Pond."
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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:21 am

I love the Ponds so much.

I am indifferent to this Doctor so much.

I dislike River Song so much.

The Ponds just are way more interesting and wonderful. I wish this season was like Blink where the Ponds are forefront and the Doctor and River Song appear on a dvd extra. Or at least are just visited while the Ponds have their adventures. They are just more dynamic than the Dr. They flow in change. This Dr is just this Dr. Outshined by the companions.
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TBC

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:12 am

Thing about the Ponds, get into S7, gonna mild spoiler for Warty here but oh well... You see that they are great together saving the Universe with The Doctor, but Rory and Amy Williams, average suburban British couple, no kids. well, that's not so much. Maybe you can blame The Doctor for that.
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MrBill60

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:47 pm

@davidalan wrote:
I love the Ponds so much.

I am indifferent to this Doctor so much.

I dislike River Song so much.

The Ponds just are way more interesting and wonderful. I wish this season was like Blink where the Ponds are forefront and the Doctor and River Song appear on a dvd extra. Or at least are just visited while the Ponds have their adventures. They are just more dynamic than the Dr. They flow in change. This Dr is just this Dr. Outshined by the companions.

Where's that "Like" button?
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Warthawg1

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:16 pm

Why is everyone hating on River Song?
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MrBill60

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:53 pm

Actually I don't mind her, she adds a little spice.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:46 pm

@Warthawg1 wrote:
Why is everyone hating on River Song?

Because sometimes wrong people have ridiculous opinions.

River is the best.
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