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 The Expanse - Syfy

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MrBill60

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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:43 am

S3E11

This was an incredible episode and one of my favorites of the season.  The immediate deceleration imposed by the Hub  after the attack by the MCRN Marines from the last episode reeked havoc aboard the ships in the ring where two thirds of the crews are either injured or dead.  Anyone not strapped in were flung into the walls and ceilings and whatever obstacles between.    We also find out that the hub also imposed a new speed limit where originally it would take days or weeks to get back to the ring gate but now will take 7 months, probably a lot longer since all the ships are being pulled in toward the Hub.  

Another effect of this speed limit is the loss of gravity which can no longer be produced by the acceleration thrust. This basically becomes a death sentence for the many who have internal injuries which can't heal in zero-gravity, and this becomes import later on.

The zero-g special effects are spectacular as we're shown a graphic scene of a corridor of floating corpses and blood globules. There is one scene that shows tears sheathing the eyes instead of flowing.  Nice attention to details. 

My favorite part of the episode are the exchanges between Drummer and Ashford after the deceleration pinned them on opposite ends of a large vehicle during their confrontation in the last episode.  Drummer is in worse shape than Ashford but both are stuck and with no way to communicate with the crew.   There's some wonderful character development as they have to work together to extricate themselves from the situation.  Both Drummer and Ashford are amazing and complex characters.  Drummer is just bad-ass awesome and although I don't trust Ashford completely, I understand his goals, and so does Drummer and they eventually come to an understanding.   Both are in pretty bad shape, Drummer with a crushed and bleeding leg and probably pelvis,  and she finds out that Ashford is coughing up blood from a punctured lung, so they couldn't wait any longer, one of them had to survive.   Since she's at the forward end of the vehicle, and jump starting the vehicle will move it forward... Drummer's solution to their situation was extreme and Ashford respects her now for risking her life to save him. Fortunately she survived but is even worse shape and out of commission for now.

Ashford turned me around with his grand gesture of "spinning the drum" on the Behemoth to produce gravity, and then inviting all of the ships in the vicinity to send their wounded so they can be treated, "because we're all in this infernal hell together".  This act should help legitimize the Belters in the eyes of Earth and Mars, but I also have a slight suspicion that it may turn into a hostage situation. I'll be disappointed if that becomes the case.

It was good to see Naomi's reunion with semi-conscious Alex and Amos aboard the Roci. Those two are injured but will recover.

I've also grown to respect Anna more since reality set in and she's no longer just in it for the ride.

Looking forward to next week's two episode finale.

* The MCRN skiff pilot says that the Hub's response was not self defense but a massacre, and she blames Holden for it.  Wrong, it's their fault - you don't throw a grenade in someone else's house and expect to get away with it.

* Loved the effect as the Behemoth drum started spinning. It was first time and it sounded from inside the ship like it needed a lot of WD-40 as it got up to speed. They should send Amos over there to grease the gears. :)

* A great conversation about wearing the OPA uniforms when Ashford admitted it was his idea:

Drummer: "I sacrificed too much in my life to adopt the tradition of my enemy,”

Ashford: "When the victim becomes the victorious, they adopt a uniform to show that they are one warrior... I have no desire to look like anyone other than myself, but I will sacrifice my pride to make something better for the future.”


(I thought the actress playing Camina Drummer might have been from Eastern Europe, but I heard an interview with Cara Gee and she's as Canadian as Maple Syrup.  And David Strathairn with a "Piratey"-brogue-Belter thing going on.   I just love the Belter accents!)
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:49 pm

Here's a fan made trailer of the series as part of the "Save the Expanse" campaign , it really gives a great feel for the show.  Btw, The Expanse has been saved by Amazon and we can enjoy at least another season of this incredible series.

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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:23 am

The Season 3 finale is a day away and thought I'd share a picture of the kick-ass women of The Expanse.




Chrisjen Avasarala - Diplomat and UN Secretary General.  
- she's a fascinating mixture of pure elegance and a sailor's mouth.  "Just get to the f*ing point!"

Gunnery Sergeant Bobbie Draper -  Martian Marine Corps
- to me she's the equivalent of Brienne of Tarth in GOT, very kick-ass and dedicated to her dream of seeing Mars Terra-formed in her lifetime which has been continually postponed because of conflicts with Earth.

Capt. Camina Drummer - Outer Planet Alliance and commander of the Belter-crewed Behemoth.
- I just love this character, she's a bit on the extremist side but is absolutely dedicated to giving an equal voice to the Belters in planetary politics.  I just love her Belter accent.

Naomi Nagata - engineer extraordinaire and original member of the Ice Hauler Canterbury, current member of the
Rocinante crew with a short stint on the OPA Behemoth.
- She's all heart and deeply passionate about her people, the Belters,  but became disillusioned with the extremist wing that she originally ran with and then joined the Earth Ship Canterbury. She has a very interesting backstory that I hope is explored more in detail in Season 4.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:09 pm

One thing which amused me. The Purple Heart is an American military medal. There is an implicit hint that the Mars Military originated not from UN forces but from US forces stationed on the planet. The way I see it it's geo-political transferrance, similar to Piers Anthony's Bio of a Space Tyrant series, but much less blatant...because Anthony had the subtlety of a day-glo elephant and was only good at bad word play. The Martians are Yanks in Space resisting what they see as the Globalist...erm...Systemist? agenda of the UN and the Belters are the Developing Nations thumbing their noses at both the US and the UN, wishing both would take a flying leap off of a tall cliff and leave them to sort out their own issues in their own way.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:42 pm

Yes, the Martians have definitely adapted the US military command structure, GSGT, etc as well as the Martian Marines as a division of the Martian Congressional Republic Navy (MCRN). Interesting that the UN and Mars both use Naval terminology and space is viewed as a very large ocean.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:58 pm

A couple of questions about Episode 11: It's  my understanding that the Belters can only tolerate a fraction of Earth's gravity (I believe 3 percent),  so I wonder how they survive the thrust gravity during space travel, and when they started the Behemoth's drum spinning, is it at a slower rotation speed and will the UN and Mars survivors still be able to heal properly? Given the level of detail in this series, I hope these questions are addressed in the finale.

eta: there's a lot of information online about these details, so I'll go there and share the results if it's interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:15 am

A quick check shows that Ceres has roughly 1/36 Earth's gravity at the surface and Eris has about 1/12. By comparison the Moon has 1/6 and Mars has 1/3. Yeah, there is a lot about the effects of low gravity on the human body available on the net. One suggestion I do have for any future "Groundhogs", Heinlein's term, who plan on spending an extended stay on the Moon, courtesy of Comrade Manny. Wear 5 kg of lead strapped to each wrist during all waking hours or else when you get back home you won't be able to lift anything heavier than a cup of coffee for a week.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:39 pm

I was pretty blown away by the season finale. I'll have more later and I'm sure glad this wasn't the series finale. One chapter closed and a new one opened.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:49 pm

It was gripping. Missed the start by about 15 minutes, had to wait until last night for another chance to watch it.

There were some character actions which surprised me and quite a few which didn't in the slightest. Diogo is still a petty thief, if he survived the encounter with the lift I hope Ashford made him into a navigation hazard somewhere between Titan Station and Ceres. Speaking of Ashford, in the short time he was on the show his actions suggested he would be the right man to make the wrong move in a sticky situation and he lived up to it. Not his fault, I blame Dawes for sending a hammer in the first place.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:22 pm

In addition to the great Belter accents, we get to hear full-throated “Felota!” and “Mama Sabaka!” instead of censored cursing. Just finished Episode 11, so spoilers ahead for any other Diogo-come-latelies.

The emphasis on point of view was wonderful. One person’s “defensive measure” is another’s “massacre.” And Anna vs. Amos seemed especially powerful because I’d expected it to be Amos who rescued Naomi, not Anna. And Drummer and Ashford having to work together -- the free-floating camerawork while they were trapped was brilliantly done.

And I loved the subtle explanation about the Mormons wanting to duplicate Earth-like night and day so that’s why they went for the luxury of having a spinnable drum on their ship. And just like the Hub slowed down the bullets and then the ships, the show slows down its pace for the aftermath of the speed change.

That was an incredibly intense episode, and at least four Emmy-worthy performances. I burst into tears when Drummer moved the machine. And I can’t help thinking it was her act that motivated Ashford to share the gravity. Hostages, Mr. Bill? How do you scream “Oh, no!” in Belter? (Plus, Nabokov level punning, spin the drum for Drummer, and singing about “til I” while Tilly is dying.)
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:03 pm

Finale Spoilers ahead

@TBC wrote:
It was gripping. Missed the start by about 15 minutes, had to wait until last night for another chance to watch it.

There were some character actions which surprised me and quite a few which didn't in the slightest. Diogo is still a petty thief, if he survived the encounter with the lift I hope Ashford made him into a navigation hazard somewhere between Titan Station and Ceres. Speaking of Ashford, in the short time he was on the show his actions suggested he would be the right man to make the wrong move in a sticky situation and he lived up to it. Not his fault, I blame Dawes for sending a hammer in the first place.

Yeah, I don't understand the thinking of the scientist (Spender from X-Files) that setting off a nuke near the hub to gather scientific data is a good plan in any situation.  Of course the Hub is going to react, so now they have to devise another plan within 7 hrs to piss it off even more before it completes its charge-up  and wipes out the solar system- and Ashford supported these plans?  


Amos is such an interesting character.  He looks at anyone with ethics or morals like they're an alien, he just doesn't get it, but I think he is very curious and wants to understand so he'll follow their lead.  First it was Naomi and now  Anna.  I really liked Anna a lot in this in her interactions with Amos and Clarissa.  

Drummer is one tough Belterlowda.  Even a spinal injury and paralysis doesn't stop her from jury-rigging mechanical leg braces.  She was told that regrowing a spine was a very delicate process and needed to go into a semi-coma to let it happen.  Of course she's having none of that, so it's doubtful that it can be healed now with all she went through.  I like the small details like turning off her Magboots and a sigh of relief to take a load off her spine.  

Couldn't someone have warned Drummer that they're cutting loose an elevator?  I think she may have turned off her comms, though, but what a great scene and she willing to sacrifice herself yet again.  

I liked Clarissa's reaction to "Hi, I'm Jim, what are you in for?" and Bobbie's "Alex?"

Couldn't Holden have described Miller as a protomolecule manifestation instead of "Miller came to me and told me to do so and so"?   He would sound less nuts.  Interesting that Ashford believed his story to a degree.  I also liked that Drummer slowly came around to accept Holden although she's not there for him but to make sure Naomi is safe.

The ending blew my mind and I have a lot of questions about it.  Looking forward to next season.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:20 pm

@Pi-O-My wrote:

...

And I loved the subtle explanation about the Mormons wanting to duplicate Earth-like night and day so that’s why they went for the luxury of having a spinnable drum on their ship. And just like the Hub slowed down the bullets and then the ships, the show slows down its pace for the aftermath of the speed change.

Drummer said something else about the Mormon's that I had to replay several times and still didn't catch.  I wish I had the quote.  She referred to the Mormons creating this place so they could feel like they never left their homes, but it wasn't exactly that and it wasn't clear.  

Quote :

That was an incredibly intense episode, and at least four Emmy-worthy performances. I burst into tears when Drummer moved the machine. And I can’t help thinking it was her act that motivated Ashford to share the gravity. Hostages, Mr. Bill? How do you scream “Oh, no!” in Belter? (Plus, Nabokov level punning, spin the drum for Drummer, and singing about “til I” while Tilly is dying.)

I agree, the acting was emmy-worthy and I hope this show pics up at least some emmy's, Saturns and Nebulas, and whatever else is out there.  I definitely hope that Cara Gee and David Strathairn are considered.

I'd like to do a rewatch starting with season one sometime in the next month or two.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:23 am

Mr. Bill wrote:
I'm finding Preacher Ana annoying and I have no idea what she is doing on board besides her own curiosity.  I think they originally had representatives from all religions, but they were shuttled out when it became dangerous but she elected to stay.  So she thinks she could have saved her shipmate by just sitting and listening?  He needed a psychologist, not a minister.


Preacher Ana was getting on my last nerve as well -- too sickening sugar sweet.  However, she earned points in the finale when she (at long last) couldn't find any empathy for Clarissa Mao.  (It was refreshing to see a totally human response to such monstrous acts.)  

I do think she might have saved her shipmate by sitting with him and listening.  She regrets not making time for him when his need was great.  I believe she could have offered him comfort and someone to lean on during his fear and panic attacks.  There are no guarantees that her support would have saved him but it might have.

Mr. Bill wrote:
Ashford turned me around with his grand gesture of "spinning the drum" on the Behemoth to produce gravity, and then inviting all of the ships in the vicinity to send their wounded so they can be treated, "because we're all in this infernal hell together".  This act should help legitimize the Belters in the eyes of Earth and Mars, but I also have a slight suspicion that it may turn into a hostage situation. I'll be disappointed if that becomes the case.

He certainly is a complex character, isn't he?  My first thought as to his motivation in this situation was the same as you have mentioned -- legitimizing the Belters as a equal to Earth and Mars.  But I have to tell you, part of me thinks there's a man of honor buried inside and maybe his motive was (in part) altruistic.

That part of him surfaces again when Clarissa Mao asks him if he believes one selfless act could redeem a person for all the bad they've done.  His affirmative response was the last thing she needed in order to step in and "save the day".

Mr. Bill wrote:
Amos is such an interesting character.  He looks at anyone with ethics or morals like they're an alien, he just doesn't get it, but I think he is very curious and wants to understand so he'll follow their lead.  First it was Naomi and now  Anna.  I really liked Anna a lot in this in her interactions with Amos and Clarissa.


I love Amos -- so brutally honest.  But he's not without ethics -- he's just a black and white kind of guy.  He doesn't see the shades of gray, IMO.  

More so than any other character, if Amos tells you he has your back -- you can depend upon it.

Mr. Bill wrote:
The ending blew my mind and I have a lot of questions about it.  Looking forward to next season.

Ditto!  And it looks like Miller will be back -- that's all win. *grins*

I'll be back with more later. :x
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:55 am

You know how some things nag me and I can't get them out of my mind.   Well, this scene from The Expanse  S02E06 "Paradigm Shift" has been nagging me ever since I saw it.  It's the scene where Solomon Epstein fatally tests his new hyper-drive which ultimately gives Mars an advantage and guarantees their independence from the UN -- a paradigm shift.

Quote :
SOLOMON: Mars had been a colony for a long time, and it was filled with the best scientists and technologists humanity had to offer.
We were ready to govern ourselves and start a new nation of our own, but everything we built, or mined or made, was still the property of old Mother Earth.
I was a fusion-drive engineer.
My wife, Caty, wanted to start having babies, like all good Martians do, but I convinced her that we should buy a second-hand yacht for me to tinker around with instead.
She liked to indulge me.
I'd been modifying the engine to boost fuel efficiency.
I wasn't expecting much, maybe four percent better, tops, and I was taking it out for a test run.
Commence pre-flight check.
Commence pre-flight check! The voice interface had been problematic from the start.
The original owner was Chinese, so I turned the damn thing off.
[Beeps] The rest, I guess, is history.
[Beeps] Okay.
Let's see what you can do.
- [Whirring] - [Grunts] [Rapid beeping] [Chuckles] My name's Solomon Epstein.
And I changed everything.



Page 1 of 7 from solomon's story:
 

So, I guess we are supposed to believe that the production company shot that scene to explain how the Martians wound up with a super drive and independence.  But I don't buy that.  Something like that could very easily have been explained in a conversation between two people working on an existing drive -- like Naomi and Alex.  - A couple of minutes -- tops.  Think of the cost of filming the actual scenes to a few lines of dialogue.  That's what plagues me.  Why go through that for such a small return.  So, I'm thinking -- maybe -- just maybe (and I think I voiced this at the time at ltv) Solomon is responsible (or at least his flight) for the protomolecule making its was to our little corner of the universe.

Here's the dialogue from Holden and Ashford concerning what Holden was shown:
Quote :
[DOOR CLOSES] [DOOR OPENS]
ASHFORD:  Ah, I am Klaes Ashford.
HOLDEN: I've heard of you.  You're one of Anderson Dawes' scavengers.
ASHFORD:  Ah, let's try to be civil at least.  If we can.  Tell me what happened on that station?
HOLDEN: So we're docked with the Behemoth.  I want to talk to Naomi Nagata.
ASHFORD:  Not just yet.
HOLDEN: When I find out what happened to my crew, I'll talk.
ASHFORD:  Bargaining is how civilizations are built.  So you tell me everything I want to know then I put you in touch with your crew.  Fair?
HOLDEN:  I already told everything to the Martians.  It didn't buy me anything.
ASHFORD:  Well, there's inflexibility to the military mind which I do not share.
HOLDEN:  It'll all sound insane.
ASHFORD:  I am not here to judge you.
HOLDEN: Josephus Miller.  The detective from Ceres.
ASHFORD:  He who died on Eros? -
HOLDEN: He came to me.  Told me to go down to the Station.
ASHFORD:  What? A dead man came to you and told you to go on? What, you hear voices? What? You actually see this man?
HOLDEN:  Do you want to hear this story or not?
ASHFORD:  My apologies.  Please continue.
HOLDEN:   Miller took me into the Station. - Showed me things.
ASHFORD:  What sorts of things?
HOLDEN: Images. - It's hard to put into words.
ASHFORD:  Please try.
HOLDEN:  It was like seeing a whole civilization all at once. Billions of them.  Strange, bright minds.  Not human.
ASHFORD:  Like the ones who sent the protomolecule?
HOLDEN:  The ones who created it.  They made the Station.  This space.
ASHFORD:  Why would your dead friend show you this?
HOLDEN:  We've had it all wrong about the protomolecule.  It's not a weapon.  It wasn't sent to kill us.  It was just trying to build a road.
ASHFORD:  Where every single person on Eros died for that road.
HOLDEN:   It doesn't care about us anymore than we care about anthills we pave over.  And now that it's finished building the Ring.  It's trying to report in.
ASHFORD:  Re report what? To to whom?
HOLDEN:   It doesn't matter.  Everyone it could talk to is gone.
ASHFORD:  I don't understand.
HOLDEN:   Something killed them.  It tried to stop it.  Burned whole solar systems like they were cauterizing a wound.  Only it didn't work.  We are in a graveyard.  We need to get out of this place and never come back.

What if Epstein's ship -- hurtling through space -- was the "something that killed them".  I really do believe that "test run" plays a part -- maybe that's what at the "scene of the crime".   Thoughts?


Also  -- here's the Holden's finale ending, one-sided conversation with an unseen Miller (who I'm positive hitched a ride with Holden).

Quote :
I guess it worked.
You haven't been straight with me, Miller.
There's something you're not telling me.
Oh, really? After all the pain and death, you just flip a switch, and we're free to go.
Just like that.
Nice try.
I think you were trying to open the Ring gates from the beginning.
That was the plan.
And what I want to know now is, are we I mean humanity are we part of that plan? I don't believe you did it out of the goodness of your heart.
It was never about helping us.
We know all of our divisions.
All of our hatreds.
They didn't just magically disappear the moment you set us free.
You've given us a new frontier.
1,300 habitable systems on the other side of those Rings.
You know we're gonna go.
We won't be able to resist.
It's gonna be another blood-soaked gold rush.
Am I scared? Yeah, you're god damn right I'm scared.
And I think you know why.
When you connected me to the Station, I saw something.
The civilization that built the Rings is gone.
Wiped out.
What could have killed them? That's what I'd like to know.
Gonna need a ride.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:40 pm

@sandi wrote:

. . .

Mr. Bill wrote:
Amos is such an interesting character.  He looks at anyone with ethics or morals like they're an alien, he just doesn't get it, but I think he is very curious and wants to understand so he'll follow their lead.  First it was Naomi and now  Anna.  I really liked Anna a lot in this in her interactions with Amos and Clarissa.


I love Amos -- so brutally honest.  But he's not without ethics -- he's just a black and white kind of guy.  He doesn't see the shades of gray, IMO.  

More so than any other character, if Amos tells you he has your back -- you can depend upon it.
. . .


Sandi,  I think there's something else going on with Amos, though. In S2E7 Amos was interrogating the Proto scientist and the discussion turned to the treatment that removed the scientist's emotional center.  I believe the scientist said it was temporary, but through a series of treatments it can become permanent -  (Sounds a lot like "Cuckoo's Nest" shock treatments).  Amos appeared to be interested in this and the scientist said he could hook him up with someone who could do the procedure.  

In S2E8, as Amos is walking down the Tycho mall we see him in sort of a haze effect (altered state) as Alex approaches him to ask him if he can help him out with preparing supplies for the Ganymede refugees.  Amos refuses because he doesn't feel like it, which leaves Alex open-mouthed.   Later Alex and Amos have a physical altercation where Amos ends up almost choking Alex to death, then stops short and says "I don't want to hurt you, Alex, because there's no one else to fly the ship".  He was dead serious, and the concepts of friend and shipmate never came into his thought process.  Although it wasn't directly addressed, I think Amos took the electromagnetic treatment to remove his emotional center.  I think it was temporary because we do see him develop a friendship with Prax later on and he's basically back to his normal self, but there might have been some lingering effects.   I think before and after the treatment, he had an underdeveloped moral center and that treatment just took it to a whole new level for a short period.  

In the finale, we see Anna sitting with a dead patient and Amos comments "you know he's dead, right?"  - again it's almost an alien concept to him.    Amos was going to execute Clarissa on the spot and Anna had to talk him down. She also says that "hate is a burden, you don't have to carry it with you".  (I think mostly she was trying to convince herself),  but I  don't think it really connected with Amos.  When he was going to execute Clarissa, in his mind he was just doing a job that needed to be done.   Also an interesting comparison between Anna and Amos when Anna says she's just doing what needs to be done and  Amos agrees , "me too".  He's basically equating a minister sitting with a dead man to executing someone on the spot as jobs that need to be done.  He says these types of incongruous comparisons frequently.

 In Dandelion Sky, Amos tells a frightened Alex a story about a Baltimore friend who said that if the end came, she'll head to the roof and jump off with her cats in tow.  Amos tells Alex, "Don't worry, I'll take you too",  as if that was a comforting thought to Alex.  It was funny, but it also shows that he is missing something in his makeup.

Don't get me wrong, Amos is one of my favorite characters and also the most complex which makes him all the more interesting.  Wes Chatham does such a fantastic job portraying him.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:44 pm

Quote :

In S2E8, as Amos is walking down the Tycho mall we see him in sort of a haze effect (altered state) as Alex approaches him to ask him if he can help him out with preparing supplies for the Ganymede refugees.  Amos refuses because he doesn't feel like it, which leaves Alex open-mouthed.   Later Alex and Amos have a physical altercation where Amos ends up almost choking Alex to death, then stops short and says "I don't want to hurt you, Alex, because there's no one else to fly the ship".  He was dead serious, and the concepts of friend and shipmate never came into his thought process.  Although it wasn't directly addressed, I think Amos took the electromagnetic treatment to remove his emotional center.  I think it was temporary because we do see him develop a friendship with Prax later on and he's basically back to his normal self, but there might have been some lingering effects.   I think before and after the treatment, he had an underdeveloped moral center and that treatment just took it to a whole new level for a short period.  


I may have been wrong about Amos going through the procedure to temporarily remove his emotions.  I re-watched those  scenes in S2 and I think he had a reaction to scaring a child and then questioning himself about who he is and his reality.  Amos visited the scientist to get information on the procedure but I don't think he had it done. I think his refusal to help Alex with the refugees and the confrontation with Alex happened because  he was questioning himself (thinking he was a monster) and he didn't want another incident like with the child.  So he does have emotions, empathy, and feels pain, he just doesn't understand them very well.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:51 pm

@MrBill60 wrote:
Quote :

In S2E8, as Amos is walking down the Tycho mall we see him in sort of a haze effect (altered state) as Alex approaches him to ask him if he can help him out with preparing supplies for the Ganymede refugees.  Amos refuses because he doesn't feel like it, which leaves Alex open-mouthed.   Later Alex and Amos have a physical altercation where Amos ends up almost choking Alex to death, then stops short and says "I don't want to hurt you, Alex, because there's no one else to fly the ship".  He was dead serious, and the concepts of friend and shipmate never came into his thought process.  Although it wasn't directly addressed, I think Amos took the electromagnetic treatment to remove his emotional center.  I think it was temporary because we do see him develop a friendship with Prax later on and he's basically back to his normal self, but there might have been some lingering effects.   I think before and after the treatment, he had an underdeveloped moral center and that treatment just took it to a whole new level for a short period.  


I may have been wrong about Amos going through the procedure to temporarily removing his emotions.  I re-watched those  scenes in S2 and I think he had a reaction to scaring a child and then questioning himself about who he is and his reality.  Amos visited the scientist to get information on the procedure but I don't think he had it done. I think his refusal to help Alex with the refugees and the confrontation with Alex happened because  he was questioning himself (thinking he was a monster) and he didn't want another incident like with the child.  So he does have emotions, empathy, and feels pain, he just doesn't understand them very well.

lol2 Well damn!  Your prior post had me convinced we were seeing those "lingering after affects" of that treatment.  Now, I'm not so sure.  

I'm all for doing a re-watch, but maybe not real soon.  When we do a re-watch, we should pay particular attention to Amos before the encounter with the scientist and Amos after.  From my memory he seems to have always had a cold and direct approach to everything with the exception of anything having to do with Naomi -- but I could be very wrong.  

Re-watch --- I'm thinking of delaying that until closer to the next season.  What do you think?
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:21 pm

As far as the rewatch, I'd like to wait until S3 has been included in the AMZ Prime subscription. S1 and S2 are available but right now I can only buy S3 (I'd love to see it unedited without the SYFY censoring). I'm not sure when that will happen.    

In the meantime, I hope First Watchers will start  threads because this show is too good to miss out on.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:33 pm

That finale was amazing. Watching the scene in the elevator shaft (I assume Drummer cut off her coms so they wouldn’t try to change her mind instead of continuing upward) I was more than tense, I was mad that TPTB saved Drummer previously just to kill her off – ha! Should have known better. Cara Gee is so terrific, but I hope she has a good physical therapist because walking at the weird angle required by her mech legs must be really hard on her own spine!

Sandi, I’d forgotten all about Epstein. And yes, it makes sense that it will tie in later, and could very well have been involved in the destruction of the civilization we’re obviously supposed to be wondering about. You’re looking ahead while I’m looking back – I want more backstory on Ashford and how he got all those burn scars. (He mentioned to someone something about watching his only child burn to death – very intriguing.)

Mr. Bill, I think Amos finds emotions confusing, which is part of why he’s so hard to read. He seems to have a need to bond with people he sees as good – first Naomi, then Prax, then Anna. Maybe he’s like a dog that’s been abused so doesn’t want to trust any more but can’t help himself once he’s rescued. But there also seems to be a pragmatic element to it, like knowing that Anna would be just the person to convince the crowds about what was going on. Again, I’m wanting a look back – whatever happened to him back in Baltimore? And the Drummer/Ashford conversation about the Mormons was close to what you understood, that they wanted to spin to “pretend” they were still on spinning Earth, with its regular alternation of day and night.

Hopefully Amazon will put all three seasons “free” with Prime before they have Season 4 ready to go. My rewatch schedule will depend on my husband’s first watch. He began Season 1 (while I rewatched with him) but agreed to pause when Season 3 began so I wouldn’t get all confused with watching new and old congruently. I was totally time-warped when I was involved with a rewatch of Breaking Bad while watching a new season of Better Call Saul. (“Wait, why isn’t Hector in a wheelchair?”)
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:49 pm

@Pi-O-My wrote:


Mr. Bill, I think Amos finds emotions confusing, which is part of why he’s so hard to read. He seems to have a need to bond with people he sees as good – first Naomi, then Prax, then Anna. Maybe he’s like a dog that’s been abused so doesn’t want to trust any more but can’t help himself once he’s rescued. But there also seems to be a pragmatic element to it, like knowing that Anna would be just the person to convince the crowds about what was going on. Again, I’m wanting a look back – whatever happened to him back in Baltimore? And the Drummer/Ashford conversation about the Mormons was close to what you understood, that they wanted to spin to “pretend” they were still on spinning Earth, with its regular alternation of day and night.

Yes , I agree and understand Amos a bit more after your description.  The abused dog analogy is pretty accurate, I'd imagine.

Regarding the Behemoth/ Nauvoo, I'm very interested in the ship configurations since typically they have "stacked decks" toward the direction of flight so they can use "thrust gravity".  I'm not sure about the Behemoth since the crew is in a drum,  so thrust gravity would be acting on the crew from 90 degrees and pushing them backwards if facing forward.  It's interesting that Ep 10 was the first time they spun up the drum, are they just using Mag Boots to keep them on the ground?"   Yeah, I'm a nerd and need to read up on that as well as revisit the Epstein drive and the origins of the Proto molecule.

. . .

Quote :

Hopefully Amazon will put all three seasons “free” with Prime before they have Season 4 ready to go. My rewatch schedule will depend on my husband’s first watch. He began Season 1 (while I rewatched with him) but agreed to pause when Season 3 began so I wouldn’t get all confused with watching new and old congruently. I was totally time-warped when I was involved with a rewatch of Breaking Bad while watching a new season of Better Call Saul. (“Wait, why isn’t Hector in a wheelchair?”)



Unfortunately we might have to wait a year before S3 is available for free with an Amz Prime subscription.  I heard they usually wait until a couple of weeks before the new Season is released.   Since Amz purchased the show from SYFY, maybe they'll release it early since it might be great marketing and revenue if they could get new subscribers.  I'll keep an eye out, but I may just bite the bullet and purchase it .  I think I have enough Amz reward points to just cover it but got to check with my wife, first. (She does the finances.)

I understand that the events through season 3 are covered in the first 3 novels -Leviathan's Wake, Caliban's War and Abaddon's Gate, so there should not be spoilers by reading these novels (at least that's what I've been led to believe from the fan sites).  There are currently seven novels with number 8 coming out this December, which is good news if Amazon can keep it going.

I hope the book authors don't pull a GRRM on us and go on an indefinite sabbatical before they've finished the series.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:41 am

@MrBill60 wrote:



Regarding the Behemoth/ Nauvoo, I'm very interested in the ship configurations since typically they have "stacked decks" toward the direction of flight so they can use "thrust gravity".  I'm not sure about the Behemoth since the crew is in a drum,  so thrust gravity would be acting on the crew from 90 degrees and pushing them backwards if facing forward.  It's interesting that Ep 10 was the first time they spun up the drum, are they just using Mag Boots to keep them on the ground?"   Yeah, I'm a nerd and need to read up on that as well as revisit the Epstein drive and the origins of the Proto molecule.

 

That was a "Hold on a second" moment for me. Using the same compartment under thrust as under rotation with no change in apparent orientation??? Completely messed that one up.

One of, if not singularly the, oddest ships the US Navy ever had was a ship which was designed to partially sink end-first. It was designed for the purpose of creating a self-propelled stable observation platform for missile guidance testing. In calm to mild seas, less than 4 foot swells it was absolutely stable in vertical mode because about 80 of the mass was below the waterline and there was only a small cross-section at the waterline to be affected by wave action. The mode transition must have been a mildly disorienting affair for the crew. The aft bulkhead became the deck, doorways became hatches and vice-versa, I'd imagine the ladders were removable so they could be reconfigured...Nauvoo SHOULD be like that.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:01 pm

Here's a pretty good overview of Amos Burton .   Some mild spoilers ahead..




Here's one on Camina Drummer - one badass woman, and her best moments come in Season 3.

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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:51 pm

An new fan trailer has been released, contains some S3 scenes and minor spoilers.



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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:04 pm

Couldn't wait for the S3 release for Prime members which is most likely months away.  Couldn't pass up the $10 deal that they're offering members for the entire season. I think it's down from $30. Now I can enjoy it completely unedited.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:20 pm

It's tempting to buy that now. I am seeing a $19.99 price for S3. I missed the first few episodes on YouTube because I was late getting on the wagon and that was as far back as they had. Thus I have a huge gap. Probably rewatch S1 and S2 before I buy S3 and fill missing space.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:22 am

I need some clarification concerning season 3's ending.

When they proved they were not a threat, the remaining ships and crews were able to exit the ring.  Where did they exit into?  (I got the impression it was not their known universe or it wasn't an area of space they were familiar with.)

Didn't someone (Holden or Miller) indicate that the protomolecule was not interested in mankind unless they were a threat?  Didn't he say their mission was to complete the station (which they did) but when they went to contact "home", it wasn't there or was destroyed?

If that's the case, then I believe "Miller" hitched a ride with Holden to discover what happened to their "home".  What do you think?
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:21 pm

I came across some interesting info...The genesis of "The Expanse" was an MMO which was never published. Probably intended to be something similar to "No Man's Sky" and we all saw how that went over...nice visuals but the gameplay was a huge let down. The project was abandoned after the devs realized that it would just be too expensive to make it happen the way they wanted and two of them started writing books under a joint nom de plume. The game as near as I can tell, was supposed to be set in the time frame AFTER the gateway has opened and the three factions of humanity have started exploring.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:22 pm

@sandi wrote:
I need some clarification concerning season 3's ending.

When they proved they were not a threat, the remaining ships and crews were able to exit the ring.  Where did they exit into?  (I got the impression it was not their known universe or it wasn't an area of space they were familiar with.)

Didn't someone (Holden or Miller) indicate that the protomolecule was not interested in mankind unless they were a threat?  Didn't he say their mission was to complete the station (which they did) but when they went to contact "home", it wasn't there or was destroyed?

If that's the case, then I believe "Miller" hitched a ride with Holden to discover what happened to their "home".  What do you think?

I recall the exchange, but I can't really posit anything on that. Let me think about it and get back to you.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:21 pm

@sandi wrote:
I need some clarification concerning season 3's ending.

When they proved they were not a threat, the remaining ships and crews were able to exit the ring.  Where did they exit into?  (I got the impression it was not their known universe or it wasn't an area of space they were familiar with.)


Good question , with hundreds wounded I think they may have exited the same way they entered to return to home base and off-load the wounded, repair the ships,  and devise a plan on which Ring gates to explore. With hundreds of gates, I don't think they just picked one randomly or chose the closest.   Perhaps the scene we saw was a flash-forward of the Roci entering one of the gates after the above has been done?   I'm wondering what that  flash of light was that we saw envelop Holden as he was exiting the gate?

Quote :
 
Didn't someone (Holden or Miller) indicate that the protomolecule was not interested in mankind unless they were a threat?  Didn't he say their mission was to complete the station (which they did) but when they went to contact "home", it wasn't there or was destroyed?

This is little spoilerish since I'm basing this of what I've read on-line,  but it was also alluded to in the series.
S3 and possible spoilers about the Ring system:
 

    

Quote :

If that's the case, then I believe "Miller" hitched a ride with Holden to discover what happened to their "home".  What do you think?

I believe that is the case .. the Ring/protomolecule is using Miller as its investigator.

I wonder if what destroyed the original civilization was an advanced species who became infected by the protomolecule?  I would assume the protomolecule probes were directed at planets with undeveloped life but if was accidentally unleashed on a very powerful species with space travelling capability, that would be a declaration of war.  This is a complete guess, and I'm betting it's a lot more complicated than that.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:46 pm

Note: Added spoiler tag and additional comments to my notes above concerning the "Ring System"
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:30 pm

The best coffee in the Solar System ..

for size:
 
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:50 pm

Alex's Zero-G drinking game, looks like a lot of fun.  





I'd like to know what the Texas-Mars connection is.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:26 pm

Just started my rewatch on Prime, or as I call it "Remembering the Cant". So much early-show goodness that gets forgotten. The Expanse is actually very fast paced so a lot of the early characters and scenes get left in the dust. Miller's rookie pal...What was his name? It doesn't matter. He barely survives getting skewered by a bunch of OPA goons during a riot, might as well have died because after that Miller was off Ceres and headed to Eris. But his scenes were crucial in setting up the dynamic on Ceres and in the Belt in general for the viewers. So he was the expository dump with a potted barrel cactus.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:48 pm

I forgot that he was carrying around that small cactus for an entire day, lol. The actor, Jay Hernandez, is now starring as Thomas Magnum in the reboot (I just don't see it).  I've done 2 re-watches already and I'm picking up new things each time.  I also enjoyed the short scene with Jonathan Banks as the homesick, plant-loving XO of the Cant.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:03 pm

Jay Hernandez as Magnum? No. Too young.

Through S1E6. Miller has been fired by from Star Helix and the Roci has just left Titan Station on Fred Johnson's little errand. On Earth Chrisjen is chasing shadows, still being led around by Errinwright.

I loved the scene where dufus's uncle shoves him out the airlock and sacrifices himself to waste the Martian patrol jerks, but somewhere along the lines first time through I missed him getting saved. Is it ever shown or does he just show up on Titan Station miraculously?
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:01 pm

Although Diogo is a Little Falota (floating shit in Belter, hehe),  I felt sorry for him as he was pleading with his uncle not to throw him off the ship.  The uncle was actually giving him a chance for survival because he was on a suicide mission.  The uncle said through the comms that someone will pick him up, maybe he made arrangements beforehand, but space is big and it is miraculous that someone found him.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:15 pm

Yo Pampa!


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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:06 pm

@TBC wrote:
I loved the scene where dufus's uncle shoves him out the airlock and sacrifices himself to waste the Martian patrol jerks, but somewhere along the lines first time through I missed him getting saved. Is it ever shown or does he just show up on Titan Station miraculously?
I think he just miraculously shows up on the Titan Station. (I remember thinking -- where did he come from?) hai
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:55 pm

I thought it was interesting that Diogo's uncle actually opened his space helmet to remove a dangling live wire during a space walk.  Most sci-fi show people immediately flash-freezing in space but apparently you can survive for 15-25 seconds and apparently the depiction was pretty accurate.  I think he was exhaling to normalize the pressure.  The Belters have generations of experience of trial and error in space walks.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:03 pm

@MrBill60 wrote:
I thought it was interesting that Diogo's uncle actually opened his space helmet to remove a dangling live wire during a space walk.  Most sci-fi show people immediately flash-freezing in space but apparently you can survive for 15-25 seconds and apparently the depiction was pretty accurate.  I think he was exhaling to normalize the pressure.  The Belters have generations of experience of trial and error in space walks.

Nice, except it's not quite that easy. Know how your ears pop in a sudden pressure drop? That's because the inner ear is also pressurized. When Prax's gal pal and the rest of the Inners were spaced oddly none of them grabbed the sides of their heads reflexively.

So I finished the first two seasons on Prime, just bought S3 and am about to watch the episodes I missed.

More things to love...the way Bobbie talked the tech on Mao's yacht into taking his finger off the switch...not only did he do it but he asked her to rough him up a little to make it look legit. Boo-Ya! I realized that in previous post since I started my rewatch I was calling Tycho Station "Titan Station". I don't know why, but then I don't know why the station was so named. Tycho, named after the astronomer Tycho Brahe, is a large crater on the Moon. There is NO asteroid named after him or anything else in the Main Belt for that matter. Thus a naming confusion...First time I saw "Tycho Station" I thought it was The Moon, but then realized it was in the Main Belt. However, "Titan Station" would also be a name confusion. Titan is the largest moon of Saturn...and in the Solar System.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:32 pm

Ceres...We have a problem.


Nee-Chan has started watching. Her main problem is that she is used to shows that neatly explain everything for the viewer. Secondary is that she watches while she is doing other things and you can not watch a show like The Expanse like that. So I am having to explain things to her. She doesn't understand spaceships without artificial gravity because all the sci-fi she's watched have had it. I felt like Beverly Crusher explaining to her staff how to make a splint Her comment at my explanation was "That's inconvenient.". Well, yes. That is no doubt why most spaceship sci-fi uses artificial gravity. She also missed that the kid who got shoved out the airlock by his uncle was the same one who was caught by Miller stealing water.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:37 pm

This show is meant to be binged, it's like one long movie, and new details come out with each repeated viewing.  I've also been listening to "The Churn" podcast which includes the book series authors Daniel Abraham and Ty Franck (pen name Jame S.A. Corey).  They are also producers on the show.  Each podcast covers an episode beginning in S2 and include some of the actors and production crew.

"The Churn" is also the name of a supplemental novel by the authors that focuses on Amos Burton and his upbringing in Baltimore, which is pretty much a gang war zone in the novel universe.  

I plan on doing another rewatch before S4 and might do a breakdown of each episode and include tidbits from the podcasts.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:31 am

I was surprised how much I liked this. I basically binged all three seasons on dvd while I was in a technologically impaired part of Michigan. Of course the crew is the heart of the show. But I also felt a part of other societies and appreciated various povs. However I have rarely felt such a need for retribution when certain characters committed obvious atrocities or other hateful acts. One particular mass spacing brought out some serious wrathful screaming on my part. It's a credit to a show that puts forth the effort to where I care what's happening to bunch of cameo refugees. You hope that karma took care of those murderers. But what did we did get from all that was a very successful character arc that did conclude with the assassination of someone evil although not by that character's hand. I thought that was well done. I guess what I'm saying is that the show has nuance. Meanwhile all the worlds exist in tenuous balance. The new ones too.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:43 pm

Some notes on the last few episodes....

When Drummer and Ashford are pinned between the machinery he tries to explain the reason for the new OPA Navy to have uniforms. Spews some line about how it's to show the Inners that they are not the "animals" which the Inners believe them to be. Sorry, it's not that simple. You can't just put pirates in uniforms and turn them into a navy. At the start of the show Diogo was a thieving falota, at the end he was Lieutenant Thieving Falota. See how that works? Ashford himself? At the end he's all about "Here come Belter-Loader to save the day." and he almost gets everybody killed riding that hoss. We can only hope the backlash from his actions covers Dawes in shit (Fred Johnson: You sent a pirate to take over my ship and he nearly destroyed the Solar System).

Had the opportunity to take a better look at the character of Carissa Mao, since this go-round I knew who she was from the start. Her actions made a lot more sense, especially right at the start when she killed the supervisor. "You shouldn't have looked." She honestly liked him, respected him, after killing him deeply regretted it, because he was a better father figure than Jules-Pierre had ever been. The flashback scenes which we saw. all Carissa's memories, were of Mao clearly favoring Julie and being outright dismissive of Carissa. "She [blah blah blah] and you plan parties.".

Right at the end "Miller", I think it's actually the bit of proto goo left behind by the Hybrid they roasted, currently glowing away under the cargo bay floor panels, (but it has some link to Miller beyond Holden's knowledge, the hat makes that obvious) tells Holden "I need to hitch a ride." I think S4 is going to be the Roci, possibly with Bobbi aboard, guided by "Miller the Goo" visiting Holden every time he drops a deuce, (We come in peace but I can't go in peace) exploring different systems looking for traces of the civilization that built the gates or the enemy which destroyed them.

ETA: Oh yeah...Bill, how can I find that podcast?
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:53 pm

The Churn Podcast

I believe you can find it on Itunes as well.  I understand it will continue on in Season 4, but not sure if it will still be on Syfywire or on Amazon.   (Note: one of the hosts is a little annoying and tends to talk over some of the guests, but I think she improves as time goes on, but with that aside, the behind the scenes content is extremely interesting.)

Here's the itunes link:
Itunes link
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:43 pm

@davidalan wrote:
I was surprised how much I liked this. I basically binged all three seasons on dvd while I was in a technologically impaired part of Michigan. Of course the crew is the heart of the show. But I also felt a part of other societies and appreciated various povs. However I have rarely felt such a need for retribution when certain characters committed obvious atrocities or other hateful acts. One particular mass spacing brought out some serious wrathful screaming on my part. It's a credit to a show that puts forth the effort to where I care what's happening to bunch of cameo refugees. You hope that karma took care of those murderers. But what did we did get from all that was a very successful character arc that did conclude with the assassination of someone evil although not by that character's hand. I thought that was well done. I guess what I'm saying is that the show has nuance. Meanwhile all the worlds exist in tenuous balance. The new ones too.

That spacing was horrific and on top of that, I was pissed that Prax was sugar-coating it in the video to Doris' parents and just dropped the entire event.  I know he had other concerns at the time, but I hope he pursues it in the future.  It shouldn't be too difficult to find the OPA refugee ship and compare routes and timetables.  Whoever was captaining that ship should be held responsible.  But OTH, how do you prosecute extremists with a whole organization protecting them?
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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:31 pm

I don't know if prosecution is the majority approach to crimes. It seems that most people rely on murder and revenge. It almost disappointed me that the one earth dude was merely arrested and basically banished from the show. Both for pushing events that led to the death of millions in South America (like nobody's ever done that before!) and for killing the supporting actor from Justified.


Prax I think did the best he could. I think that being candid about the mass spacing would have just made targets of everyone. Interestingly, from a pov perspective, we would never have known except through his eyes. I like how the show thinks of these things.




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MrBill60

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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:56 pm

I found the future replacement for water boarding interesting.  

S1 spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:08 pm

I love some of Avasarala's quotes but some are pretty low jabs.

To a Belter,  actually I think it was to Naomi:

I'd say 'cry me a river' if I thought you could appreciate what one was.

Kind of funny, but pretty low in expressing her "Earther superiority".  Unfortunately bigotry is still alive and well in 23rd century.
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PostSubject: Re: The Expanse - Syfy   Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:15 pm

Found this fan edit pretty hilarious (except for some very offensive rap lyrics in a couple of the clips).  
Warning: NSFW

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