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Zaphod

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PostSubject: kneeling in the eves   Thu May 24, 2018 10:34 am

so the NFL decides policy finally. your take - yay, nay, indifferent? stop rehashing old topics Zaphod???

one, i honestly don't care. it's tradition yeah, but anymore it's just done by rote and not by any feeling at all. you see the camera pan across the players, it the same facial enthusiasm one sees when kids do the pledge of allegiance at school - i'm doing this because I'm told to do so. some players do show enthusiasm, I APPRECIATE this. I'm way happier when they pan the fans, and fans are into it. Oh and pet peeve, take your damn cap/hat off. a minor show of respect that costs you NOTHING.

two, and this one may be divisive. pro sports players - you claim to not be role models. what you mean to say is your intent is not to be role models, because kids do watch and idolize you - and they DO notice your actions. so you kneel during the anthem - now they are thinking it's fine to do this in school. and if that's ok, hey i can disobey other rules. hey i don't need to listen to the rules. hey my concept of how society is is what's ok, NOT the agreed upon model set by the mass. SORRY KIDS, you do not live in your private bubble, you need to accept society's impositions. Players can disregard this rule as they make godawful amounts of money.

three, it's sad the NFL has to make stupid specific rules for their players. you players claim to be pros, but you seem to act like elementary school kids much of the time. is the nfl going to need to step in now and create potty rules for the field? (actually there probably are rules regarding what to do if one needs to go while playing, that's not a good example. BUT you get my point.)

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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Thu May 24, 2018 9:37 pm

This is a terrible ruling. And forgive the pun, but ultimately it cannot stand in a free society.

Zaph, professional athletes often do consider themselves role models. Who makes a better role model in your opinion, the athlete who follows orders because they're orders, or the athlete who's not afraid to make a non-violent gesture that indicates that they respect the ideal represented but feel that that ideal is yet unreached?

Kaepernick and those who have followed have dishonored NOTHING. If anything they've honored the direction of our nation as we slowly become inclusive. This was the last bastion of legal human slavery in the world, and it really wasn't that long ago. Before and during that it was the site of the most massive genocide in recorded history that still isn't internationally recognized as a genocide.

Racial inequality is reality in the US, and it is most evident in our massive "law enforcement" prison system, which has become a staple of our economy. The US now has more people incarcerated than all the other imprisoned humans in the course of human history COMBINED. It's not just an economic staple, prison gerrymandering has effectively replaced slave gerrymandering (remember that 3/5 thing from, y'know, The US Constitution?), and like slave gerrymandering, its most glaring hypocrisy might be that felons aren't allowed to vote in most states.

As for potty on the field, most lineman shit and piss themselves during the game, often multiple times.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Thu May 24, 2018 10:13 pm

is this a play on words "kneeling in the eves"

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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Thu May 24, 2018 10:18 pm

and i agree Mo its a pansy assed rule made by a bunch of rich old white dudes to appease another not so rich dude but thinks he is

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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 11:05 am

well yes Mo, however if at MY job I do something against the rules, regardless of my good intentions, I will get admonished for it and even possibly lose my job.  this is a business, the owners are allowed to set their rules and the players can opt out of their contracts if they feel they do not wish to follow those rules. the players by imposing their own rules are taking on a management role they do not have.

ED - bad pun on reeling in the years, steely dan
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 11:47 am

There are some very interesting legal matters involved in this whole thing, and i'll agree that the 1st amendment doesn't protect anyone from consequences of their speech, nor protect players from having this rule imposed upon them. It doesn't give Colin Kaepernick the right to expect a job, although IF - and that is a very big if, and furthermore one i'm disinclined to believe - IF NFL owners directly colluded against him, he may be due for a pretty hefty civil settlement. But IMO Kaepernick himself isn't the issue, nor is his lack of a job.

This a heavy-handed ruling sent down from Goodell without due consultation and without any due process. Yes the NFL is a private for-profit organization, but it's also a conglomeration of private for-profit franchises, and even more importantly than that, it's players are unionized and have the right to collectively bargain in disputes over how "acceptable workplace decorum" is defined, and Goodell has conveniently ignored that fact. Now i'm not trying to sell the NFLPA as a bunch of liberty conscious do-gooders, but they should file for an immediate injunction in this case as they weren't even invited to a table to discuss this matter.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 11:58 am

agreed. but slippery slope for goodell - let one thing slip, now players will escalate other behaviors they feel are justified, as they are children with way too much money. what if a team demands an extra player on the field? you can't tell us the rules of the game, we as the players get to decide that stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 12:09 pm

No, the NFLPA has already given the league's rules committee the right to set and change the rules of the actual game itself.

You wanna talk about a slippery slope? How about the first time a player gets fined because he yawns during the anthem? How come the vendors at NFL games just keep on slinging beers and food during the anthem?
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 12:18 pm

AH but one can't argue the anthem protocol is PART of the actual game? do the rules not apply if the play clock is not running?

you make my point, Mo. if G let's one thing go, it opens the door to letting other "transgressions" go. G doesn't govern the vendors, so the stadium sets the rules regarding what they can/can't do and timing. I feel you kind of want to have a business be rule-less, which for me branches into utopian thinking. It'd be great, but in reality rules are needed unless you want anarchy.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 12:45 pm

Well, no, i'm pretty sure that the anthem ceremony isn't considered part of the game. If it were, the rules committee could have handed down the same ruling and it would be much more legitimate.

No, i don't want businesses to be "rule-less" and i understand that some franchises have legitimate business concerns about putting a product on the field that people don't like. That's one of the major reasons that i say this isn't about Colin.

To be clear, i'm not arguing that the teams can't set conduct standards for their players which could involve behavior during the anthem ceremony, and i'm not even saying that the league as a whole couldn't do so. My point is that the commissioner doesn't have the legal authority to hand down so broad a ruling.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 1:28 pm

I really enjoyed Golden State Warriors' head coach Steve Kerr's reaction to Goodell's ruling, though clearly he understands, as do i, that it's not a legal defense against the ruling but more of a cultural indictment of the atmosphere which led to the ruling...

"It's just typical of the NFL. They're just playing to their fanbase. Basically just trying to use the anthem as fake patriotism, nationalism, scaring people. It's idiotic. But that's how the NFL has conducted their business. I'm proud to be in a league [sic] that understands patriotism in America is about free speech and peacefully protesting. Our leadership in the NBA understands when the NFL players were kneeling, they were kneeling to protest police brutality, to protest racial inequality. They weren't disrespecting the flag or the military. But our president decided to make it about that and the NFL followed suit, pandered to their fanbase, created this hysteria. It's kind of what's wrong with our country right now - people in high places are trying to divide us, divide loyalties, make this about the flag as if the flag is something other than it really is - which is a representation of what we're about, which is diversity, peaceful protests, rights to free speech. It's ironic actually."

Well said Mr. Kerr.

Zaph, NBA players have been protesting all along but there's been no hysteria, and nobody's tried to put a 6th man on the court or protest during actual game play. And the NBA lets players in younger than the NFL does and pays better, so what was that about how spoiled baby athletes will take the inch and run for the mile?
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 1:56 pm

plenty of babies in the nba, it is a game that sanctions flopping as legit. pffft. this explains why i enjoyed 70a-80s basketball and now find it ridiculous.

how is it brave to call the national anthem fake patriotism? it's an opinion. basically making the statement 'traditions should never exist and all should be constantly updating to suit current whims.' i can call his opinion fake trying to please everyone with whatever opinion is currently blowing in the media.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 3:01 pm

@Zaphod wrote:
plenty of babies in the nba, it is a game that sanctions flopping as legit. pffft. this explains why i enjoyed 70a-80s basketball and now find it ridiculous.

how is it brave to call the national anthem fake patriotism? it's an opinion. basically making the statement 'traditions should never exist and all should be constantly updating to suit current whims.' i can call his opinion fake trying to please everyone with whatever opinion is currently blowing in the media.
There's flopping in the NFL as well, though admittedly the NBA has allowed it to become raised to the status of art. I also don't like that refs give EVERYBODY an extra step driving to the rim and i've even see double-dribbles go uncalled. Meanwhile incidents of game fixing have gone way down since Adam Silver took over, while the NFL has been getting a lot more accusations of game fixing over the same time period.

But none of that has anything to do with what i was trying to say.

@Zaphod wrote:
agreed. but slippery slope for goodell - let one thing slip, now players will escalate other behaviors they feel are justified, as they are children with way too much money. what if a team demands an extra player on the field? you can't tell us the rules of the game, we as the players get to decide that stuff.
This is what i was speaking to. NBA players kneel, sit, raise fists, etc during the anthem and nobody gives a shit. It's not covered by the networks and the players keep it off the court and out of the game itself. In the two years between when Colin Kaepernick started his protests and Goodell's ruling, NFL players weren't going down any slippery slopes with their protests. I think your point here was invalid.

____

You're certainly free to disagree with Kerr. I didn't say his words were brave, nor do i think he intended to imply that they were. He wasn't referring to the anthem itself as fake patriotism but rather to the idea that players should be forced to toe a line regarding the anthem. I agree with him, to me that's nationalism not patriotism. I definitely don't think he's concerned with pleasing everyone, he could've simply said he didn't care about what's going on in a different sport's pro league, that it's not his place to judge how a different sport regulates their players' activities, and that would've been much less divisive, and he's not someone who is unaware that he could say so.

I think if you want to criticize his remarks more accurately you could accuse him of pandering to his own fanbase with his remarks. Golden State plays their home games in Oakland, so with no dedicated San Fransisco team in the NBA, the Warriors are the de facto home team to that fanbase. Irony indeed, you might say, and you'd have a point.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 4:41 pm

look Mo, just admit you're wrong and we will all move on. sbob

i will admit the NBA seems far more forward thinking than the NFL, which tends to try to appeal to my age demo. i'm not saying that's a bad thing, I'm saying the NFL is "stodgier" in its beliefs than the other big sports.

I think the tradition concept is valid - tradition anymore is getting tossed out the window in a society that has a shorter and shorter attention span, and feels that ignoring or rewriting history is fine. HUGE MISTAKE in my mind, but I'm no genius so my opinion is a starfish same as everyone else's.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 5:13 pm

LOL fine i admit that you're wrong.  pfft

I can't help but wonder if the whole thing is just a smokescreen anyway. I think the NFL would rather deal with politically charged issues like this rather than deal with the massive and sweeping changes that are desperately needed in player safety reform.

Furthermore i think that not only is that a fucked up choice to make, but i don't think they're doing right for the future of the sport. Already so many parents don't want their kids playing this sport because it's so damaging in every way a human can be damaged. It's something that the league should be trying to get in front of. Pretending to be in denial is one of the worst possible strategies imo.

It's perfectly fine with me that we disagree, and it's refreshing to get an opinion from the other side of the argument from someone who doesn't attack me personally for having a difference of opinion. It can be so difficult to try to just find a civil conversation about issues like the kneeling these days. I think that's related to your comment about shorter attention spans, too.

I absolutely agree that ignoring history is dumb and dangerous, and rewriting history is at best something that should only be done very carefully with accuracy as the primary goal, and often is incredibly dangerous.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 5:23 pm

I will admit i've been wrong before, and it could occur in the future and now. concede. and i appreciate we can discuss this and disagree and still be fine with each other. HEY ADULTS, THIS IS HOW PEOPLE GET ON. IT'S CALLED LOOKING AT THE OTHER'S SHOES AND RECOGNIZING THEIR POINT. (and by people, i really mean politicians mostly. stop the pissing contests.)

with all the hooplah over player safety, i agree it's amazing we are still playing football as currently exists. i wonder in ten years possibly it will switch over to flag football due to these concerns, or some form of less contact football.

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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 6:34 pm

When my students don't stand and recite the pledge, I'm don't say a damn thing.

Forced patriotic displays are shit, anyway.

Making it now a fine for sports players to kneel during the anthem is making even the idea of "American values" such an utter joke.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 7:15 pm

ok then american, tell me what protocol you deem important anymore, i am delighted to hear. all i am hearing is blah blah nothing important anymore blah blah. respect for teachers, still need that one? oh i'm sorry why?

respect for country - nah, fuck that. respect for teachers - OMG MUST HAVE. hi hypocrisy. the goddam country created your teacher job, if you want to go back to 8th century concepts, admit it and remember what shit lives people lived back then.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 7:50 pm

Like I tell my students frequently-- respect isn't an entitlement. It's earned, and you have to give it to get it.

That applies all over the place.

Respect for teachers? Not if I treated them with disrespect and was shit at my job. I wouldn't expect them to respect me AT ALL if that was the case, and they shouldn't.

Expecting someone to respect you when you shit on them? THAT is hypocrisy.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 8:15 pm

the country that created YOUR job, and it's ok to shit on them as they are faceless. Teachers rely on respect, and yet it's fine to disrespect the country that created the very job that rewards you. THAT is the beauty of our country, and yet everyone loves to dwell on the shit rather than the positives. The country tradition of the pledge, OMG FUCK THAT TO HELL, can't have 2 minutes of respect for history. Your little social notoriety of 20 minutes in the past 50 years history, I have to respect that shit, but god fucking forbid I wish to nod to the guys of WW 1 and 2 who created your goddam current society of freedom in which you are free to shit on the very history that brought you here.

ENTITLED BRATS ALL.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 8:46 pm


If people who have been historically oppressed for centuries aren't very respectful of the country that has done that, you think they should be forced to show "patriotism?"

The country created my job, but I'm the one working in it. And if I am a great teacher to 80% of my students, and then abuse and degrade and mistreat the other 20%, would I deserve their respect?

I would HOPE that the 20% I'm mistreating wouldn't respect me at all. And further... I would hope that the 80% who I'm treating well would ALSO not respect me, if they had any moral fiber. I would hope they would step out of the little bubble of "everything is fine for ME" and consider those who aren't so lucky.

Good thing is, I see this more and more with the new generation. Exposure to people outside of their bubble has made them more willing to fight for each other, less selfish, and much less insular.
They might even have a chance to finally fix the messes left to them by those entitled brats (Baby Boomers).
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 8:47 pm

In case the metaphor wasn't clear...

The country created my job (well, kind of). It also created a racist, oppressive mess of a justice system. Should I be like "well, racism doesn't affect ME except for making my life better, *I* am doing okay, so I'm not worried about the oppression of those OTHER people"?

Sorry mate but that's all kinds of fucked up.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri May 25, 2018 10:04 pm

@Zaphod wrote:
god fucking forbid I wish to nod to the guys of WW 1 and 2 who created your goddam current society of freedom in which you are free to shit on the very history that brought you here.
Has someone asked you not to nod to those "guys"? Last i knew the individuals who knelt, sat, raised fists etc weren't giving any shit to people who stand for the anthem and as far as i know it's been an absolutely one-sided debate in that way. Some people choose not to stand and other people think they should be forced to. NOT some people choose not to stand for the anthem and are trying to coerce other people into also not standing.

usa

________

This is a couple years old now, but it's just as relevant now as it was then, maybe even a little more relevant even, i think it's a great read: https://www.popehat.com/2016/08/30/i-stand-despite/
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sat May 26, 2018 1:07 am

This has been making the rounds on Twitter...



I don't think anybody involved in the current matter is actually a Nazi, but it does display an eerie similarity
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sat May 26, 2018 11:14 pm

The tradition of NFL players being on the field for the anthem during the regular season dates all the way back to ...  2009. I love the anthem, always stand, and usually get a little weepy. I like that it ends with a question -- "we still good here or what?" The more people feel shoved into expressing their patriotism or politics or religion or lack thereof in a required way (esp under pressure from a government or corporate leader), the less optimistic I am about the current answer to that question. The more I see people protesting non-violently, freely, and bravely, the more optimistic I'll be.

Unlike Popehat (whom I also love), I'm not a First Amendment expert, but if any of those NFL teams play in stadiums funded via tax dollars, then there might be free speech issues involved, imo.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sat May 26, 2018 11:17 pm

@Maturin wrote:
I like that it ends with a question -- "we still good here or what?"

I love you so fucking much.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sat May 26, 2018 11:24 pm

*throws vonne into Boston Harbor*

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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sun May 27, 2018 12:18 am

no throw sarah palin and trump instead.

i support the kneeling but those who kneel or support those who kneel should remember the history of action and equal and opposite reaction. in the segregated sit down at the diner days the response was arrest and violence. today the response is his holiness the trump defining patriotism when he goes out of his way to support a Chinese firm in trouble because the trump family and it have shared business interests in Indonesia. There's your hypocrisy. But still protesting creates a response. And if CK is willing to accept a negative response, then CK go at it. If you believe in what you're doing, go at it. At least you aren't getting drunk and throwing things onto the field like certain fans do. Maybe they're the ones who should be fined or banned from a stadium or thrown out of the country.

Now there's a question of collusion. There's denying perhaps a capable player of employment because he started all this fuss. Well, the question becomes whether he's a superior quarterback or backup quarterback than all those currently on all the rosters. I can tell you based on the Cleveland Browns 0-16 season there is one team in definite need of a possibly superior quarterback. So I think there might be collusion. For fear of upsetting the hyperpatriots. Well, I guarantee you if CK won a few games for the Browns all would be forgiven. The NFL has a habit of forgiving quite a lot.


Meanwhile there's this new rule of if you're on the field you must stand and salute or you can hang out in the lockerroom. If I was a kneeler (hmmm) or a supporter of one, what I would do is remain in the locker room but I would stand---just stand---during what I assume would be the piped in music of the star spangled banner. I would say here's my patriotism---my choice of patriotism. So why couldn't I stand on the field? Because I'd be busy kneeling, that's why.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sun May 27, 2018 2:35 am

@Maturin wrote:
*throws vonne into Boston Harbor*



*gazes at you adoringly while drowning*
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sun May 27, 2018 2:39 am

@davidalan wrote:
But still protesting creates a response. And if CK is willing to accept a negative response, then CK go at it. If you believe in what you're doing, go at it.

That is what makes it powerful, to me.

This ended his career. And I think he had to know that this might happen when he started it.

And he did it anyway.

Because sometimes, humans care about more than themselves.

As for whether it's a violation of his first amendment rights, nope. The NFL doing it, not the government, using your speech has civil consequences.

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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sun May 27, 2018 7:49 am

I don't think that anybody can make a persuasive argument that Kaepernick wasn't one of the top ten or twelve QBs in the league. The NFL, and more importantly their consumers, have been very forgiving about substance abuse, including PEDs and recreationals, they forgave Mike Vick for his heinous actions, and they've historically been way too forgiving about domestic violence, though they've made some progress on that at least.

I'm disinclined to believe that the owners directly colluded against CK, but i'm prepared to admit i was wrong if it comes out otherwise. In my opinion, when franchise is in a city with a conservative fan base and consequently doesn't want to pick him up for non-football reasons, they have a right to do that. Even franchises in more liberal cities can claim that they don't want him because they fear he'll drive away revenue because even liberal cities still have wealthy luxury box owners who don't want to be shamed by their privilege before every game. I could even understand a franchise like, say just for argument's sake, the Ravens - i think CK's message would really be well-received by Baltimore as a whole, but if senior management/ownership figured they didn't want to pick up Colin because they were concerned that the whole thing would turn into a big mess and they didn't want uncertainty at the QB position - shit that imo is actually a football concern not just a PR concern.

BUT if the owners, even just a few of them, collectively decided not to put that man back on the field, then they should be made to pay for that. In my opinion.

If i'm understanding this correctly, so far the penalties are fines. I'm not sure that that's going to accomplish what's intended. It's good that at least the league allows the players the option to stay out of sight, but i'm not sure that that's going to accomplish whats intended either. I can imagine some players paying the fines, and how cool would it be if they made matching donations to the Southern Poverty Law Center, the ACLU, the NAACP, or something similar.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Mon May 28, 2018 12:25 pm

fines are pointless to these nitwits. they make bank and it's monopoly to them. shame or game sanctions are the only things that work. SO...i will point out their shames and not feel bad about it at all. Life in society = rules, obey the stupid rules. if you disagree with the rules, do NOT join the company that follows the rules. it's not your job to get in there and be a mole to 'correct' them. you are free to start your own league.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:52 am

@Zaphod wrote:
Life in society = rules, obey the stupid rules. if you disagree with the rules, do NOT join the company that follows the rules. it's not your job to get in there and be a mole to 'correct' them. you are free to start your own league.

1955 called, it wants its Jim Crow argument back.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:52 am

history called, it says you repeat me when you forget me
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:19 pm

????

As for rules and joining/creating other circumstances, without action there is no change. As for the change, we can decide whether the change is good bad or deeply in the middle. Circumstances are different. As for the NFL, while I find this whole worrying about what players do during the anthem kind of silly, a new compromise-y rule is now there. If I was a player, I'd wait in the locker room. Just out of principle. If I was the whole team I'd wait in the locker room, out of team unity, but if some people want to be on the field during the anthem, then perfectly fine.
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Zaphod

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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:24 pm

famous line, youngers of course no clue. hence the quote. it's fun living in the world of only 20 years.

the nfl shoud just dispense the anthem and traditions outright and bow to whatever the current mood is, as that's the world today. implement a dance during the opening theme, that's tv friendly, cmon now!!
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:45 pm

@Zaphod wrote:
history called, it says you repeat me when you forget me

... That seems to be the point here.

You don't seem to be cognizant of the past of America.

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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:47 pm

Although I've generally preferred the more accurate "History does not repeat itself, but it rhymes."

(Or the even funnier, "History does not repeat itself, historians just repeat each other.")


Do keep in mind, Zaphod, you only have maybe 15 years on me. So you can just drop the "get off my lawn" shit.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:10 pm

lol i forgive you the age shot, as youngers have zero respect for anything not current. so now you're just kinda disrespectful of anyone who disagrees. how progressive. how very current. " i dont like this, make it disappear within 24 hours or omg my head will explode" this stupid mindset has only become prevalent in the past 20 years, and your stupid youngers created it. i have zero sympathy for anyone now, as you've decided oh woah is me feelings are the fucking priority. NOT my job as a being making sure your life is happy, hmm people in the past looked FORWARD to creating better lives. Nowadays, I'm a goddam teacher, I'm a saint, buh buh buh you picked a job with super retirement benefits, and i demand more pay because buh buh buh meanwhile the rest of us hmmm can i cover these bills.

and go vonne
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:28 pm

@Zaphod wrote:
lol i forgive you the age shot, as youngers have zero respect for anything not current. so now you're just kinda disrespectful of anyone who disagrees. how progressive. how very current.

Honestly, you've been way more irrational and disrespectful of dissenting opinions in this thread. Maybe it's an "olders" thing?

Or maybe saying that all people who are born within the same two-decade span act in the same way is completely absurd ?

Quote :

" i dont like this, make it disappear within 24 hours or omg my head will explode" this stupid mindset has only become prevalent in the past 20 years, and your stupid youngers created it.

If you like, I could point out dozens of examples of Baby Boomers (who created this "I'm offended" mindset) doing this, but in the interest of time, I'll just point to... your hysteria in this thread over kneeling football players.

Your head won't explode by a bunch of black guys kneeling for the anthem. Life will go on. It's okay

Quote :
i have zero sympathy for anyone now, as you've decided oh woah is me feelings are the fucking priority. NOT my job as a being making sure your life is happy, hmm people in the past looked FORWARD to creating better lives. Nowadays, I'm a goddam teacher, I'm a saint, buh buh buh you picked a job with super retirement benefits, and i demand more pay because buh buh buh meanwhile the rest of us hmmm can i cover these bills.

and go vonne

I'm trying to even parse out what you're saying here. Can you clarify? The "buh buh buh" in particular is baffling me. What does that signify?

The only part that is clear is the "I have zero sympathy for anyone now," because you've made that point over and over again in this thread.
That isn't something to be proud of. It's something you should fix, for the benefit of your own life, not the lives of others.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:32 pm

ignore me, spouting zero sense.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:40 pm

No prob.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:14 pm

no reason just like.

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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:03 pm

Well boom fukkin boom...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nflpa-files-grievance-over-nfls-new-national-anthem-policy/ar-AAzRk2m?li=BBnba9I&ocid=ientp

Who could possibly have predicted that? stache

@His Royal Dorkness wrote:
My point is that the commissioner doesn't have the legal authority to hand down so broad a ruling.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:07 pm

@His Royal Dorkness wrote:
There are some very interesting legal matters involved in this whole thing, and i'll agree that the 1st amendment doesn't protect anyone from consequences of their speech, nor protect players from having this rule imposed upon them. It doesn't give Colin Kaepernick the right to expect a job, although IF - and that is a very big if, and furthermore one i'm disinclined to believe - IF NFL owners directly colluded against him, he may be due for a pretty hefty civil settlement. But IMO Kaepernick himself isn't the issue, nor is his lack of a job.

This a heavy-handed ruling sent down from Goodell without due consultation and without any due process. Yes the NFL is a private for-profit organization, but it's also a conglomeration of private for-profit franchises, and even more importantly than that, its players are unionized and have the right to collectively bargain in disputes over how "acceptable workplace decorum" is defined, and Goodell has conveniently ignored that fact. Now i'm not trying to sell the NFLPA as a bunch of liberty conscious do-gooders, but they should file for an immediate injunction in this case as they weren't even invited to a table to discuss this matter.

DAMN i'm good.

But the NFLPA actually did me one better by waiting to file for the injunction. That was smart, kudos to their legal team.
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PostSubject: Re: kneeling in the eves   Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:28 pm

@Maturin wrote:
Unlike Popehat (whom I also love), I'm not a First Amendment expert, but if any of those NFL teams play in stadiums funded via tax dollars, then there might be free speech issues involved, imo.
Just to answer this point, i don't pay a whole lot of attention to stadium deals, but i do happen to know that Jacksonville Municipal Stadium, where the Jaguars play most of their home games, was funded almost entirely through tax dollars.
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