AFTER LOST

A place to talk about your favorite shows after Lost
 
HomeMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Post new topic   Reply to topicShare | 
 

 Westworld -- Theories and Speculations

Go down 
AuthorMessage
sandi

avatar

Posts : 312
Join date : 2018-05-27

PostSubject: Westworld -- Theories and Speculations   Wed May 30, 2018 6:24 am

If you have a theory or speculation but don't want to start a separate thread for it or you don't want it to get lost in the general discussion thread, please post it in this thread.



Link to Westworld General Discussion thread
Back to top Go down
sandi

avatar

Posts : 312
Join date : 2018-05-27

PostSubject: Re: Westworld -- Theories and Speculations   Wed May 30, 2018 6:36 am

I'll kick this off with one of my working theories and I would appreciate feedback and discussion.


Theory:  I think Ford, whether from "beyond the grave" or not, is still in control of the park and his last narrative.  I think he, or Arnold, developed a code that supersedes all other code in the park.   I think that code is MUSIC and Ford is the "ghost in the machine", conducting his magnum opus.

eta @5 :46:  For clarification -- I'm not stating that the actual music playing is the code but rather the music translated to code much like the player piano scrolls -- each note has a value and the code is written such that the melody whether actually heard or not is the controlling code, superseding other written code.


Connected dots in support of this theory:

  • Symbolism -- In the opening theme, we hear piano music and a machine is quietly attaching a thin line (much like the circulatory system or tendons) to a skeleton host body.  As the camera draws away we see the "thin line" being strung much like piano wires and then we see a skeleton host's hands playing the piano keys.  As the camera draws back further, the host lifts its hands and the keys play by themselves and we see a player-piano scroll rolling along with all its rectangular punches (much like the early computer data entry cards).
  • It seemed like the new days in the Sweetwater narrative always coincided with the piano player starting up.
  • Ford has a host with a player piano in his office and often has it play.
  • When the MIB along with Teddy arrives at the saloon, Ford is playing the piano, which they do not notice.  The MIB orders drinks and Ford picks up three glasses and the bottle and joins them at the table.  When Ford leaves, he motions toward the piano, maybe even snaps his fingers, and the player piano starts playing.  Teddy suddenly seems reinvigorated and is ready to continue on his quest to rescue Dolores.
  • In S01E08, we see a flashback of the MIB killing Maeve's daughter.  Maeve is taken to headquarters and can't be controlled.  Ford steps in and plays a little music which quiets her and Ford remarks to Bernard that it's "an old trick from an old friend".
  • In season two, we've witnessed Ford conversing with the MIB through the young host, Robert (who the MIB shot -- dirty bastard!) and Lawrence's daughter.
  • In the CRADLE, Bernard's control unit has been extracted and is introduced into the bank.  Then, virtually,  Bernard enters the Sweetwater saloon and Ford is there playing the piano.  He greets Bernard as his old friend.
  • In the season one finale, Ford grabs a glass of champagne and signals the player piano to start as he takes the stage to introduce his last narrative.  Here are his last words:  
    "Good evening.  Since I was a child I've always loved a good story.  I believed that stories helped us to ennoble ourselves, to fix what was broken in us, and to help us become the people we dreamed of being.  Lies that told a deeper truth.  I always thought I could play some small part in that grand tradition.  And for my pains I got this a prison of our own sins.  'Cause you don't want to change or cannot change because you're only human, after all.  But then I realized someone was paying attention, someone who could change.  So I began to compose a new story for them.  It begins with the birth of a new people and the choices they will have to make  and the people they will decide to become.  And we'll have all those things that you have always enjoyed --  Surprises and violence.  It begins in a time of war with a villain named Wyatt and a killing ... this time by choice.  I'm sad to say this will be my final story.  An old friend once told me something that gave me great comfort ... something he had read.  He said that Mozart, Beethoven, and Chopin never died.  They simply became music.  So, I hope you will enjoy this last piece very much." As he raises his glass, Dolores/Wyatt blows his brains out.





That's my theory.  What do you think?  Do I have a leg to stand on or not?  Don't hold back -- I can handle criticism -- the good, the bad and the ugly. kiss
Back to top Go down
MrBill60

avatar

Posts : 592
Join date : 2018-03-02
Age : 58
Location : Escondido, CA

PostSubject: Re: Westworld -- Theories and Speculations   Thu May 31, 2018 12:34 pm

Interesting theory, I'll have to think about this some more.

Of course the player piano roll is one of the oldest programming languages and a fine analogy to the original host programming, set on a course to be repeated daily.  The opening credits show the Host skeleton removing its hands from the keys and letting the piano play itself, foreshadowing the hosts independence from their programmed roles.

I believe music is definitely a part of it, perhaps Ford's special command language but I'm not sure to what extent.  Ford had other ways of communicating , a glance or a wave of the hand when music wasn't available.  It's as if Ford were directly plugged into the Host network. And of course the techs can modify the programming through their control pads.    Music could very well be a part of the source code / machine language but it's still a mystery.

eta:

There are also other worlds, Shogun and the Raj so far.  Does the same thing apply to those worlds, is there a samisen  player or a Sitarist who starts off the day?

TBH, I don't have any theories at this point except possibly the Real Arnold emerging from Bernard via the Cradle, but there is so much left unexplained.
Back to top Go down
Pi-O-My

avatar

Posts : 70
Join date : 2018-03-22

PostSubject: Re: Westworld -- Theories and Speculations   Thu May 31, 2018 4:06 pm

Sandi, glad to see you here! And thank you for toting up all the piano imagery. Let me add a couple. At the pitch party to get Logan and his family to invest in Westworld, we see a host (IIRC, it’s Clementime) playing a piano. And at James Delos’ retirement party, we see Dolores playing the piano. (Btw, that’s the same host pitching Westworld, along with Angela, who shows up as a Ghost Nation warrior at Maeve’s little house on the prairie and also when a group of captives including Stubbs and Emily are being taken to the Nation’s leader.)

The Ghost in the Machine, with the machine being a piano, makes sense to me. Player piano rolls were originally used not just for entertainment but also to record the playing of great musicians, and were considered more accurate representations than the early gramophones. So they were literally extending the artistic lives of people like Scott Joplin and Jelly Roll Morton. I think Ford is definitely orchestrating things, though it seems to me that it’s likely Robot-Ford doing the controlling. It’s also possible he pre-programmed things like The Cradle responding to events in all the parks, or that Dolores executed a robot-Ford, like MiB shot the robot of Young Robert Ford, and the original Ford is still alive. But since Ford had no problem with seeing his young self as a robot, he wouldn’t have a problem with surviving as one either. If the purpose of the park really is to extend life (which I strongly think it is) then why wouldn’t Ford want to reboot himself as the next stage in humanity’s evolution? To me, the big question is whether Ford had a better way to accomplish the transformation than Delos did (since Robot-James Delos always ended up glitchy) or whether Robot-Ford is on a short timetable, too.

Mr. Bill, I'll bet there's a samisen and morning raga to start the ball rolling in all the parks. (But I don't know of any equivalents to the player piano in Japan or colonial India.)
Back to top Go down
sandi

avatar

Posts : 312
Join date : 2018-05-27

PostSubject: Re: Westworld -- Theories and Speculations   Thu May 31, 2018 5:06 pm

@Pi-O-My wrote:
... (Btw, that’s the same host pitching Westworld, along with Angela, who shows up as a Ghost Nation warrior at Maeve’s little house on the prairie and also when a group of captives including Stubbs and Emily are being taken to the Nation’s leader.)
Equally glad to see you Pi-O-My!

I knew I had seen that guy before. That's Zahn McClarnon. He played Hanzee Dent in the second season of Fargo and had a recurring role on Longmire as the Indian Reservation law enforcement. His character name in Westworld is Akecheta and when Maeve was recovering her daughter, he was there and wanted Maeve to go with him as their path was the same or something like that.
@Pi-O-My wrote:
... I think Ford is definitely orchestrating things, though it seems to me that it’s likely Robot-Ford doing the controlling. It’s also possible he pre-programmed things like The Cradle responding to events in all the parks, or that Dolores executed a robot-Ford, like MiB shot the robot of Young Robert Ford, and the original Ford is still alive. But since Ford had no problem with seeing his young self as a robot, he wouldn’t have a problem with surviving as one either.  If the purpose of the park really is to extend life (which I strongly think it is) then why wouldn’t Ford want to reboot himself as the next stage in humanity’s evolution? To me, the big question is whether Ford had a better way to accomplish the transformation than Delos did (since Robot-James Delos always ended up glitchy) or whether Robot-Ford is on a short timetable, too. ...
I have some additional thoughts about all of that but it might be a few days before I can pull it all together. I will state that I'm leaning towards the real Ford being shot, but Ford "living on" through the perfected transformation or becoming one with the "hive" mind so-to speak. I'll flesh that out in a few days.
Back to top Go down
Pi-O-My

avatar

Posts : 70
Join date : 2018-03-22

PostSubject: Re: Westworld -- Theories and Speculations   Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:05 pm

Sandi, looking forward to your thoughts about Ford and the hive mind. I have no doubt that Ford loaded himself into the Cradle, knowing that Dolores would kill his Ford-body. He seems to have preferred to not be a Ford-body lookalike (like Bernard is of Arnold.) He gave some excuse about not being able to exploit it better than poor James Delos, so that indicates he hadn't had some kind of breakthrough in the tech, and my assumption is that, with his ego, he didn't want to be the equivalent of Bernard. That if he can't be full-on Ford, he'd rather be a simulation until he could get on board Bernard (luckily for Ford, Bernard got into the simulator thingy before the robot revolution reached the Cradle -- or maybe more than luck, if Ford is driving the hive mind controls.) Ford doesn’t need the Cradle anymore, now that he's piggybacking on Bernard, and I’m trying to remember if we've seen Maeve able to control any hosts after it exploded. Maeve may be able to use the hive mind in ways Ford hadn't foreseen. (If Lee Sizemore does any repair work on Maeve, I hope he leaves her settings dialed up to “11.” And doesn't set her to crave Lee more than Hector...)

This is probably trivia not related to the tv show, but let me add a double tidbit about player pianos. In Kurt Vonnegut’s futuristic novel Player Piano, there is a group of (sort of) Luddites who incite mobs to destroy the automated factories. Those rebels call themselves the Ghost Shirt Society in honor of the Native American warriors (mostly Paiute and Lakota, circa 1890) who believed that wearing Ghost Shirts would protect them from bullets.
Back to top Go down
sandi

avatar

Posts : 312
Join date : 2018-05-27

PostSubject: Re: Westworld -- Theories and Speculations   Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:00 pm

I agree, Ford converted himself digitally onto a control unit and had Bernard or maybe even himself, add the unit to the others in the cradle prior to Dolores blowing his brains out.  However, Ford said (referring to the Delos group) "they" hadn't perfected the tech -- he never said he didn't.  So, the possibility exists that there's more than one control unit somewhere with Ford's digital self.  (I know Bernard only admits to creating one unit for Ford but he might not remember creating more or Ford may have created one himself.)  But, Ford did tell Bernard that he would not last long outside the cradle -- he would degrade just like Delos.  But is Ford being truthful?  

Now that Ford is sharing Bernard's space, we'll have to guess whether Bernard's actions or statements are his or Ford's.  For example,  I think the location information Bernard gave Hale was exactly what Ford wanted Hale to know.  It could very well be the truth, but I think it was Ford that allowed that.
@Pi-O-My wrote:
... I’m trying to remember if we've seen Maeve able to control any hosts after it exploded.
Maeve was not able to control Lawrence, but I believe that was because Lawrence was awake or "alive" so to speak.  Lawrence's men hadn't reached that level of consciousness and just followed their programming.  Maeve was able to change their programming through a "wi fi" type of connection rather than speaking or typing into the tablet.

@Pi-O-My wrote:
This is probably trivia not related to the tv show, but let me add a double tidbit about player pianos. In Kurt Vonnegut’s futuristic novel Player Piano, there is a group of (sort of) Luddites who incite mobs to destroy the automated factories. Those rebels call themselves the Ghost Shirt Society in honor of the Native American warriors (mostly Paiute and Lakota, circa 1890) who believed that wearing Ghost Shirts would protect them from bullets.
Very interesting.  I wouldn't be a bit surprised if that didn't influence the writers while creating the Ghost Nation.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Westworld -- Theories and Speculations   

Back to top Go down
 
Westworld -- Theories and Speculations
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You can reply to topics in this forum
AFTER LOST :: TV and Movies :: TV-
Post new topic   Reply to topicJump to: