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 Castle Rock - HULU

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sandi

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PostSubject: Castle Rock - HULU    Thu May 31, 2018 6:09 am

Links to companion Castle Rock threads:
Castle Rock Timeline  LINK
Castle Rock Episode Transcripts  LINK



original post wrote:
Wow!  I didn't know this was even in the works!

Castle Rock (10 episodes) is set in the Stephen King multiverse and based on the stories and characters in that little part of Maine where everything strange, weird and King takes place.   Scott Glenn as Alan Pangborn,  Sissy Spacek as Ruth Deaver  and (be still my heart)  Terry O'Quinn as Dale Lacy.

Hopefully for those without HULU, there will be a free trial available about that time.  It looks like all 10 episodes will be released on July 25.  


As a new member, I can't post external links for 7 days -- so said the system.  Additional information is available at futoncritic.com.  Just do an alpha check for Castle Rock.


Last edited by sandi on Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:03 pm; edited 7 times in total
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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Thu May 31, 2018 1:35 pm

Sounds fun.

I stayed in down east Maine for two weeks in 2010. Nothing weird happened. Oh except an extensive fog while a bunch of us were walking by an old church. And one day crows kept squawking and landing in the yard. And one day a hummingbird got real close to my face and stayed there staring at me for maybe ten seconds. But no one went missing.
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sandi

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:05 pm

Found this trailer ...


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sandi

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:51 pm

Allison Tolman has just joined the cast.  Fargo fans will remember her as police deputy Molly Solverson.  
full story here
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Big John

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:50 pm

@davidalan wrote:
I stayed in down east Maine for two weeks in 2010. Nothing weird happened.

hmmm
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His Royal Dorkness

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:59 pm

I was kicked out of an arcade in Kennebunkport in the summer of 1987 for wearing an Aerosmith t-shirt. I tried explaining to security that i understood that "Heavy Metal Tee Shirts" were banned and that's why i chose to wear my one tee that wasn't a heavy metal band, but to no avail.

Now THAT is a Maine horror story.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:10 am

Latest trailer ...





... and an advance review from RollingStone LINK
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sandi

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:38 pm

S01E01 "Severance"

One episode in and I'm lovin' it!  Except -- Terry O'Quinn!  Terry as Warden Lacy found a way to end things that was shocking! -- at least to me.  Side note -- was that opera playing in his car the same one Andy Dufresne played over the speakers at Shawshank?  I'm almost certain it was.
I thought when Warden Lacy saw the shaggy dog that things would end differently but not the case.  And what do you think happened to the head?
 
The kid in the tank in the abandoned prison wing -- aka No Name prisoner played by Bill Skarsgård.  
I think Bill lost some weight to play the part.  Boy is he ever creepy!  Even before I saw that flashback scene between Warden Lacy and No Name, I figured Lacy was keeping him down there and with his retirement knew No Name would be found.  I have to ask myself, what's so terrible about No Name that someone would give-up a six figure buyout plus pension to avoid any explanations?
And the Warden is the one who told No Name to ask for Henry Deaver.  I don't think it was a coincidence that the Warden chose the very spot Pangborn found the missing boy, Henry Deaver at years ago.

And what about that flashback scene?  Henry appeared out of nowhere in the middle of that lake.  And he had been missing for 11 days, but he showed no signs of frostbite, starvation or abuse.  And to this day, his earliest memory is of the time of his rescue.  Henry has no idea what happened before then.

Seems like we're to believe there's a connection between No Name and Henry Deaver.

What about the woman who bought the drugs?  She sure didn't want Henry to see her when he got off the bus and that later scene in her attic?!!  Setting that dime-store one minute hour glass for her time to look into a box containing 11 year old Henry's Missing flyer and what has to be his red flannel shirt.  How strange was that?  Oh, not the part of looking in the box -- the part of having to set a timer so she wouldn't look at it too long -- that was ... strange.

Oh, one last thing ... anyone think the new warden is on the wrong side of the bars?  Her first thoughts about No Name is how to hide the fact of his existence and her solution is to put him in a cell with another inmate who would kill him.   Why not just tell the truth?  It's not a bad reflection on her.
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Big John

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:19 pm

I'm very excited for this! Unfortunately, I'm terrible with names. Dysfunctional even. I wish there was a character reference list somewhere that would display their names along with their description and which book they're from. I'm missing all the Easter eggs. 77
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sandi

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:59 pm

All the Stephen King Characters

The first episode is probably filled with all kinds of references and I know I'm missing 99.99% of them.  I've seen all three released episodes so, I'm reluctant to post any other references I'm aware of because now I can't remember which episodes they were from.  (My first post was made after viewing only the first episode.)

Oh!  In the first episode, the new warden goes into Warden Lacy's office while her assistant is giving her some background and he mentions one of the earlier wardens blowing his brains out in the office.  That would be the warden from Shawshank Redemption.  There's a lot of references like that.
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sandi

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:38 pm

I wonder if Bill Skarsgård is still (in this series) playing the character of Pennywise (from It) sans clown outfit? This could be a transition from It: chapter one and It: chapter two (in production). It could explain Pennywise's absence during a period of years.

I know it's thin, but he hasn't mentioned his name, was kept in a water-tight "cage" and asked Henry if "it was beginning".
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Big John

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:17 pm

Caught up on the first 3 eps. Enjoying the show. Wishing I was better at identifying the characters in the moment but using that reference guide you linked me to, Sandi, helps me after the fact.

I like that they have Pennywise locked up and don't know it. It's a wonderful main premise for the show. I predict the empath cum failed real estate agent will be the one who eventually exposes him. Molly Strand?

I do hope the show picks up the pace. I feel like a lot of the same ground gets covered too often and the next level revelations are minimal.

I'm in it til the end though.
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Big John

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:39 pm

Just did some reading about the characters. It's quite possible that Jackie Torrance, the cute young friend of Molly Strand, is the love child of Jack Torrance from The Shining.
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sandi

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:23 am

@Big John wrote:
Just did some reading about the characters. It's quite possible that Jackie Torrance, the cute young friend of Molly Strand, is the love child of Jack Torrance from The Shining.

She could be Danny's daughter. It has to be a while since the Overlook. I wonder if she "shines"?

I plan on re-watching the episodes this weekend and I'll post more then.
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Big John

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:33 am

Oh..... that would be awesome!
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:10 am

starting this this week.  Caught a small green flash of light on TOQ's window when he's looking at the dog. Tommyknockers reference..?


eta: disregard that last bit. I think it's just sunlight coming in thru the trees.


Last edited by Zaphod on Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Zaphod

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:00 pm

three episodes in, digging it. it's not all rush rush through the plot, characters are allowed to slowly build. the music is nice and subtle. Castle Rock looks suitably bleak. Could skip the animal parts, but that's just my personal opinion.

Do we know how it is doing rating wise?
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sandi

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:48 am

I can't find any real data on ratings yet, Z.

Generally speaking, it's well-received and receiving thumbs- up in reviews.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:18 am

Episode four - well now THAT was an episode. Getting deeper. yay
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sandi

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:10 am

@Zaphod wrote:
Episode four - well now THAT was an episode. Getting deeper. yay

I'm about to get all comfy-cozy and watch it now!

woooo
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:25 am

let me know what you think!
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sandi

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:49 pm

Wow!  Just Wow!  Great episode!

Dennis Zalewski!  -- I knew he was losing it, but I was really surprised how things turned out.  Honestly, I expected him to blow his brains out when he entered his surveillance room and started drawing on the screens.  I figured once he was finished with that, he would just raise his gun and pull the trigger.

At the end, Zalewski states that he wants to testify ... well -- everyone he wants to testify against is now dead.  uh   And if he were in his right mind, he would know that.  So, I'm wondering if continued contact with creepy No Name prisoner has allowed some insane darkness within to come forward or if possibly, No Name is working through him.

You know my theory about No Name being Pennywise -- let's say that's wrong (it probably is - but I have hope. *grins*)  but let's say that's wrong.  I'm then wondering if No Name is an evil entity and causes (by working through others) all this insane tragedy or if No Name is like a  lightning rod for evil.  By that I mean -- maybe he himself is not evil and causing things but evil finds its way because No Name is there -- sort of like a Typhoid Mary.  Thoughts?

Ruth Deaver -- Did she look unhappy that her dead husband's body was moved to the church (presumably a cemetary connected to the church) or what?  I would say that Ruth was probably happy when her husband died and thrilled she wasn't reminded of his presence what with his body in that landfill of a grave.  I've had a feeling about her husband -- the good Reverend Deaver -- something is off about him.  I feel like he mistreated Henry or maybe there was something really bad about him --- just a feeling as we don't have much to go on about him yet.

And the Reverend spelling out "Henry did it" to Pangborn -- I'm sure he did that, but was Henry affected by something like Zalewski appears to have been or did Henry really push his dad off the cliff because he was afraid of him?  And/or what was the Reverend referring to by "it" -- was there something else Henry did?  

Henry (after his visit with Josef Desjardins) and Molly -- Henry shares his fear with Molly that maybe he did kill his father.  Then Molly tells him there's something he needs to know and invites him in.  Skip to the next morning -- Molly goes into the bathroom and then the scene shifts to Henry lying in bed.  So, I'm not exactly sure -- did Henry spend the night with Molly?  And I really want to know what she said to him that night!  

Josef Desjardins
According to Ruth Deaver -- last name is French yet local gossip said they were Nazis hiding out.  I believe both.  *grins*

Henry searches the Desjardins grounds and finds that locked shed.  I think he believed it may have been where he was held during the 11 days he was missing as a child and so he breaks the lock off of it and when he opens the door, sees a bowl (holding decaying food) and spoon on the floor.  And what does he ask Desjardins?  "Did you have a dog?"

Yeah, Henry -- he had a dog that eats with a spoon.  Rolling Eyes

Desjardins shows Henry the original police files from his case as a missing child.  Needless to say, I'm upset we didn't get to see them or learn more about what was in them.  And Desjardins tells Henry -- he didn't lay a hand on him.

Now what does that mean?  Does that mean he did keep him there at his house but he didn't abuse him or does that mean he had nothing whatsoever to do with Henry's disappearance?


And last but not least -- Molly is showing a couple from out of town, dead Warden Lacy's house for sale.  They learn about Lacy's suicide (and find his cremains).  Molly really turns it on because she feels the sale slipping away and the guy asks if the art goes with the house.  He seems very interested in one particular painting and identifies it as Castle Rock Lake.

Castle Rock Lake is the location of Rev. Deaver's injuries, Henry's disappearance and later his recovery (when Pangborn finds him 11 days later).  It's also the site where Warden Lacy decapitated himself.

So, why would an out of town person even know what that was a painting of -- it could have been any lake in the world.  How did he know?
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:12 pm

we might wanna spoiler tag in case others wanna watch too leg

thoughts:
 
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sandi

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:25 pm

@Zaphod wrote:
And yeah, that creepy shed - something or someone was being fed, looked like. Whatever it was managed to escape or was let go, as the shed was padlocked up.

It was such a dilapidated shed and you're right in that whatever was inside either escaped or was freed.  So, why then padlock it again?  Anyone who wants in could easily knock a board loose -- so why padlock it?

As far as spoiler tags -- once aired - no longer spoiler material and I changed the title so people will know we're on four.  So episode four aired today -- no need to tag.  Plus -- there's a couple of innocuous posts before any real significant info is discussed.  In short-- I think we're safe on that front.  hai
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:27 pm

coolio. i'm just over cautious!! i kinda wish they had released them all so I could binge it, but eh that's their decision.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:37 pm

@Zaphod wrote:
coolio. i'm just over cautious!! i kinda wish they had released them all so I could binge it, but eh that's their decision.

I can relate to that. The problem with binge-watching is it's not conducive to discussion and I really enjoy discussing the possibilities and mysterious elements of shows. So, I'm willing to wait until next week just so my imagination can run wild. Selfish -- I know -- but that's how I roll. blush

sani wrote:
It was such a dilapidated shed and you're right in that whatever was inside either escaped or was freed. So, why then padlock it again? Anyone who wants in could easily knock a board loose -- so why padlock it?
What if No Name prisoner was kept there until the water-tight - underground cage could be built at Shawshank? Seems there should be a tie-in somewhere. That fact that it was still padlocked bothers me.
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Big John

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:54 pm

I've read this thread up to the point where Sandi says Wow. Don't wanna spoil myself. Will watch ep4 this evening. Can't. Wait.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:12 pm

good call BJ - looking forward to your opinion on ep 4.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:43 am

After dishcarging his weapon in the cell block merely days prior to his rampage, Zalewski should have been on administrative leave. After all the weird events that happen there, no way would he still be allowed to operate business as usual after that. Turns out it was like a trial run. I'll chalk it up to it being just more crazy Castle Rock stuff but....

Didn't Pennywise, and yes right from the get go I have believed that is Pennywise, warn against touching him? Zalewski's rampage could be the direct result of the fist bump with which he so painstakingly made Pennywise comply.

As for Pennywise, I believe the clown as well as his current appearance are just manifestations of his true self. I believe he is a demon to be named later or possibly el diablo himself.

Here's my theory about the overall story arc. Pennywise got hold of young Henry Deaver. Before Pennywise could do what Pennywise does, Rev Deav was able to intervene and capture Pennywise. Needing assistance, Rev Deav enlists Desjardins (or maybe they were already working together on this) who puts Pennywise in a shack and feeds him a bowl of crap flakes. Rev Deav then fetches warden John Locke Lacy to imprison Pennywise in the dungeon. When turning Pennywise over to warden Lacy, Rev Deav touches him and seals his own fate.

Rev Deav may have instructed Desjardins to never enter that cursed shack again.

The whole ordeal takes a week and a half.

Taking this a step further, maybe Rev Deav used Henry as bait to lure Pennywise. Maybe that was the real purpose of Henry's adoption (and maybe Pangborn knows it). Catch the child killer who's menacing the town using some random orphan. Maybe not though, that's pretty morbid.

Molly Strand pulled the plug on Rev Deav, right? She might have empathed all this which caused her to make that homicidal choice.

'Henry did it' might refer to Henry being the one that caught Pennywise. Henry did it! I'm thinking that Pangborn might have known about Rev Deav's plan to get Pennywise but didn't believe his story or think it was proper, and chose not to participate. Maybe he even tried to thwart it.

I believe the home buyer, who actually referred to the lake as Castle Lake, was a childhood resident of Castle Rock that has been mysteriously summoned back. He's a recognizable actor so it's likely we'll see a lot more of him.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:20 pm

Watched the first 4 episodes with my brother, davidalan (BA), when he was in Michigan.  I am enjoying the mystery and spookiness and creepiness of Castle Rock   yay . Right up my alley. Also, I like the cast. Some of the TV/big screen adaptations of Stephen King books have been a miss for sure and with poor acting , not the case here, at least for me.  I have not read all the books by Stephen King and with some exceptions , I actually prefer his short stories/novellas as King and as Richard Bachman.  

I am not actually convinced yet that No Name is Pennywise, although it is a good theory.  As Big John said , I believe the guard touching No Name with the awkward forced fist bump set off the guards rampage.  davidalan pointed out when the guard reached in the cell for the fist bump , it was like when the boy in IT reached into the sewer to get the balloon from Pennywise  Surprised . Was it a balloon or a toy boat ?  Either way it was a cool scene in Castle Rock.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:04 am

JMO but I think No Name being Pennywise is way way way too obvious.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:35 pm

The scene that the Ricksters referred is almost an exact duplicate of the Pennywise It scene except here the guard was the hyper one almost offering the prisoner (who of course played Pennywise in the most recent It) a balloon. I myself think the prisoner is a prisoner in more ways than one. I think he is a possessed vessel or maybe a manifestation of evil if you want. He can barely talk, which means to me that he's prevented from talking. If he talked he would almost be a dual personality a la Norman Bates. This guy could touch a lot more people if he wanted to, but he shows incredible restraint. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a voice laughing inside his head at all the misfortune that one touch can cause and at the dude himself who perhaps in an internal dialog begs to be released. Of course I could be entirely wrong, but that's the fun of guessing. I'm enjoying this series very much. The pointing out of the S King lampposts (a Narnia reference) is only a portion of the fun. I think Andre Holland is a good keystone actor. I like Sissy Spacek and Scott Glenn (both old and grumpy). The woman playing the adult voice hearer is hit and miss for me. I guess she's supposed to represent the basic townie who went nowhere, but she's mostly interesting only when the voices are engaged. Although as a kid she's handy with a pillow.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:52 pm

@davidalan wrote:
she's handy with a pillow.

Can she cook?
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:10 pm

@davidalan wrote:
I myself think the prisoner is a prisoner in more ways than one. I think he is a possessed vessel or maybe a manifestation of evil if you want.

I don't want, and here's why. Seems that Castle Rock is haunted. By what though? Is it on a sacred burial ground (are some burial grounds not sacred?)? I doubt it. A place that big with so many inexplicable, fantastical happenings can't simply be explained away by the 'this place is evil' or the 'this person makes for a great vessel for evil' theories. They can't be the answer.

To me, it's much more likely that a demon has latched on to Castle Rock, cuz demons are assholes like that. Now, it could play out as though the prisoner gets exercised and cleansed of all evil at the end of the series, or at least until that final shot where he looks back at the camera with that kid eating grin and you just know this ain't over yet.

Credible theory though BA... or DA. Which reminds me, whatever happened to VA? I think she was a CPA?
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:36 pm

The Demon theory could work too. There are a lot of references to bad things happening. And No Name has been in a cage for years. Has he aged? So there might be an It behind the scenes villain. Or it could just be the place as you suggest but don't want. But starting when? When the first building sprang up? I wonder also if Voice Woman may be sending out voices as well and not know it???? Farfetched I know. More clues approaching. Henry Deaver will find out. He's locked in now. A prisoner if you will. Leave it to Deaver.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:43 pm

@Big John wrote:
@davidalan wrote:
she's handy with a pillow.

Can she cook?

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:49 am

New Episode

S01E05 "Harvest"  airing August 8th -- today (it's up now on Hulu)


Stop here if you haven't seen this episode.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:40 am

sandi's new theory on No Name's Identity

Yes, it pains me to say, No Name is not Pennywise.  How cool would that have been?

So ... here goes ... don't groan.

I think No Name is the Fourth Horsemen of the Apocalypse or a similar creature.

The Fourth Seal—Death
Revelation 6:7-8 NASB wrote:
When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come.” I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with [c]pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.
LINK

Wiki wrote:
This fourth, pale horse, was the personification of Death with Hades following him jaws open receiving the victims slain by Death. Its commission was to kill upon the Roman Earth with all of the four judgements of God — with sword, famine, pestilence and wild beasts. The deadly pale and livid appearance displays a hue symptomatic of approaching empire dissolution.  LINK

Just consider this ...


  • In what is probably Lacy's last visit with No Name before killing himself, Lacy says that God spoke to him six nights in a row and told him where to find "the devil" (location in the quarry).  Lacy also describes No Name as "dragging evil behind you everywhere you went".
  • We watch as No Name takes a walk through the neighborhood and follows the sound of Shirley Temple singing a couple of well-known tunes.  We see a happy, loving family celebrating a child's birthday.  As No Name draws near, the family starts to bicker with the anger and aggression escalating as No Name moves through their house up to the roof.  At the end, we hear the sounds of violence as the family kills each other.  No Name didn't lift a finger against anyone -- he didn't have to -- just his presence was enough to bring out the worst in them which resulted in their deaths.
  • What's happened since No Name was brought up out of his cage?

    • Lacy killed himself.
    • The new warden placed another prisoner inside No Name's cell hoping he would kill No Name and solve all their problems.  That prisoner (in great physical shape), a few hours later, is discovered dead -- from natural causes -- his body riddled with cancer, failing organs and other death causing maladies.
    • Zalewski (after a fist bump with No Name) went on a killing spree inside Shawshank and shot the other guards before he himself was shot to death.
    • wildfires (so bad, people around the lake had to be evacuated from their homes)
    • At the Pangborn bridge dedication ceremony, a pet dog suddenly becomes agitated -- in fact, the dog looks like it would ferociously kill anyone it could get close to.
    • Also at the Pangborn bridge dedication ceremony, Henry's mother tries to commit suicide by jumping off of the bridge.
    • Happy Birthday family kills itself when No Name enters their home.
    • There's probably other things I missed.


  • No Name appears gaunt, pale and hollow-eyed.  (I think Bill Skarsgård went on a severe diet for this role.)  I mention No Name's appearance because it fits with the "Pale" Horseman that Death follows around.  It all just fits.


So, is the answer Biblical?  I don't know.  If No Name is not the Fourth Horsemen, he's surely a creature just like it.  I wonder if Pestilence is his name?

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:59 am

OMG I wanna read your theory soooo bad but I can't watch the ep til later. Have you ever heard of or considered this:

https://www.huntakiller.com/



@davidalan wrote:
it could just be the place as you suggest but don't want. But starting when? When the first building sprang up?

I wouldn't ask when so much as I would ask who. There are legends of things being haunted, woods, houses, objects, etc... However, I think what we have in Castle Rock is a demon, not a ghost. Demons haunt people. So my starting point question would be, who brought it there? The first resident? The answer to that question might also provide a means to an end.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:32 pm

S01E05  

Don't read if you haven't watched.




@sandi wrote:
We watch as No Name takes a walk through the neighborhood and follows the sound of Shirley Temple singing a couple of well-known tunes.  We see a happy, loving family celebrating a child's birthday.  As No Name draws near, the family starts to bicker with the anger and aggression escalating as No Name moves through their house up to the roof.  At the end, we hear the sounds of violence as the family kills each other.  No Name didn't lift a finger against anyone -- he didn't have to -- just his presence was enough to bring out the worst in them which resulted in their deaths.

Yes, I'm quoting myself.   blush

I may need to think about this a bit more -- the part where No Name didn't have to do anything active in order to achieve a result -- meaning just his presence is enough to cause tragedy.  I rewatched the episode and after No Name enters the house, he squats down just outside the room and looks in on the family.  He stares at the big butcher knife used to cut the birthday cake and seems to be quietly (without speaking or motioning) directing the outcome.  I don't know for sure -- anybody else?

At any rate, I haven't noticed him actively making anything else happen.

@sandi wrote:
What's happened since No Name was brought up out of his cage?

Adding to the list:
A helicopter exploded killing the pilot and two firefighters which brings the death toll of those fighting the fire to five.  In addition, it was reported that there are many others in the hospital in critical condition.  (So, it seems the fire is going to claim more lives which seemed to make No Name happy.)


Also -- Pangborn confronts No Name at the end of the episode.  We learn that Lacy captured No Name 27 years ago (that would make it about 1991 using today's year 2018.).  Pangborn has aged but he states No Name hasn't aged a day.  So we are dealing with someone other than human -- don't you think?

Also, I speculated earlier that No Name and Henry Deaver had some connection during the time Henry went missing when he was 11 years old.  Henry went missing circa 1991 -- just one more little piece of evidence to support that.

And BEWARE Alan Pangborn!  Yes, I have no doubt No Name can help Ruth Deaver and her dementia -- but -- trust on this -- you don't want that help.  The price tag will be huge!

My prediction:  Pangborn takes the help.  He loves Ruth so and he would be willing to pay any price for her.

I have much much more to talk about.  I think this episode moved the story forward and yet provided information to that gives context to what we already know.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:00 pm

Whipping up a snack and about to settle in for the show. I feel like I used to feel when a Lost ep was about to air. eee
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:01 pm

hear ya john, i get jazzed up for this and Saul
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:15 pm

Don't read this if you haven't seen the episode.












All of today's and other events remind me of The Stand. Destruction to renew creation. In this case though what the renewed creation would be isn't clear. That's my take on first thought post-episode. That might, Sandi, be related to your very cool biblical theory. The destruction-creation construct has a spiritual theme certainly. But I don't know if No Name is a specific manifestation of one of the horseman so much as his own manifestation which the writers have put in a biblical framework. The old warden does mention six nights, right? Well, on the seventh we don't have rest, we have action. Abduction. But from where?


What interests me more though is No Name is presenting a duality. Maybe it is what I had said earlier: a battle within between the true kid and what demon is roaming around inside. Or maybe not.  I agree with the demon concept expressed earlier. Here we learn No Name hasn't aged one bit. I wonder then if the demon is actually there all the time (in It mode) and occupies a body until the body is gone. That might explain the lack of aging. The story Pangborn relates to No Name (and of course to us) is so compelling. I could have listened to it all day. But it's No Name's response that's interesting too. He suddenly has (more) voice. Awareness? It started with the piano yes. But I wonder if it also started with the Shirley Temple music. Anyway his response to Pangborn is quick and direct and without that avoidant look in his eye. Something's clicked.


I wonder too now if this demon-possession of whatever it is isn't passed down through a family. I say this because of No Name's fascination with the birthday party family. And now with the family, I wonder if No Name didn't specifically cause out of the nothing the murderous rage which we overheard, but basically removed the filters in normally civilized and restrained adults??? The real estate woman (can't remember her name) hears others' thoughts, and in Henry's case is now comfortable enough to repeat them back to him, kind of similar to all the repetition tests we witnessed with Henry two years ago and with No Name now. Maybe No Name taps into emotions? And since emotions are varied, well they aren't always benign. I now think of the blond woman who I kind of like. She's seems untouched by No Name's peculiarity. In fact when he must appear naked to her she didn't seem to mind? She might have not chastised him. Just said oh sorry. I don't know. She's perplexing.


Sandi, I'm reading back at your thoughts about No Name and Henry Deaver. I think they did run into each other. Whether they were both abducted or were both "hiding" or something, there's a connection. Of course, the former warden referred to Deaver directly before committing suicide. Anyway, this part of the story confuses me. We don't have enough information. Something tells me it's the piano. No Name and Henry are there together. No Name plays a tune. Did they have this experience before? I think of the creepy David Selby character. If anyone would abduct young boys, he would. Did Henry escape? Did No Name help him escape? Did Henry lash out at his father because he was the first he encountered? But also something went on with the Deaver family dynamic. Real estate woman as a girl seemed pretty sure that Mr. Deaver deserved a pillow.



Back to the scene with Panghorn and the former warden and No Name in the car. It's interesting that No Name is banging on the interior of the trunk, trying to get out. If he was demonically possessed, maybe it just started? Maybe No Name who had a real name wasn't really to be subdued. I half wonder now if the former warden was essentially tricked to keep No Name out of sight. Why? I don't know. My thoughts are scattered. I can't land on this fully. But you know. That's why I like this story a lot. It's clear there's a mystery but it's not clear what the mystery is. It's just, as I said, No Name is speaking clearly, and I think that's the turning point.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:59 am

Wow. Now that's how you move a plot forward. Stephen King tv shows have often been rather cheesy. This one is way above par and may rival Salem's Lot as his best.

My thoughts are still scattered but I wanna get them down before I forget all the small stuff, cuz I'm tellin ya, there's a lot of information that's been given to us. So much so that one scene will send my mind down a path, thinking hard around it, causing me to completely miss the entire next scene even though I'm staring at it. Can't do that with this show. Every spoken word and every shot contains some sort of clue, or so it seems.

Exploding Casket Syndrome. That's a new one to me. Thought they were making it up but it's a real thing according to google almighty. However, this probably wasn't that after all, but what was it?

What is the significance of the wildfire? A sign that hell is coming?

Why would the warden wonder if he has done the right thing by locking up Pennywise? Can he not see that Pennywise hasn't aged? I don't think I'd personally need any more evidence than that.

What's with the show's focus on Pennywise's New Balance kicks? This is at least the second time they've been highlighted.

What happened to Gordon on his birthday? Was there any kind of news report about it or are we just to assume what happened by what we heard going on the house? Cuz at first I thought what we were hearing changed from being Gordon's birthday party, which was odd in the first place, to a Flashback of when 'the boy' really was just a boy. It didn't, because I heard Gordon's name again in there, but it sure had that sort of feel about it. So are they all dead now?

We now know Jack Nicholson is the hot pothead's uncle and redrum is her cousin. Is Pennywise also responsible for making Jack a dull boy?

Molly somewhat convincingly tells Deaver how dangerous Pennywise is and in his very next breath Deaver invites Pennywise to a sleepover. This was my one laugh out loud moment. Molly didn't show much of a reaction to hearing whatever it was she picked up from Pennywise on that rooftop or otherwise. I was hoping for more of a reaction from her but she's probably accustomed to hiding it and she is rather introverted to begin with, which makes real estate agent a strange career choice.

How did Pangborn not notice Carrie get up and walk over to the bridge? I mean, he can't seem to stop himself from ogling her in every moment, including during his big speech. So what was his big distraction? Was it the dog that somehow made that whole incident happen?

If Pangborn were going to fire the gun, he would have done so to end the episode. Would have been a much better cliffhanger. Since he didn't, I have to assume that something else warded off Pennywise before he was able to Vanquish the former lawman. I doubt either of them get killed in that confrontation.

Now we know that Pangborn knew about and endorsed the warden's play on the boy. We also know that the boy's body doesn't seem to have aged like a normal human. Furthermore, as we saw on the rooftop with Molly, the boy seems to lament... something. This leads me toward possession. There's someone else in that body still, cuz what's the alternative explanation? A demon with a crisis of conscience?

Surely, if a demon can possess a human body and prevent it from aging for so many years or drive men into maniacal rampages just by a simple touch, it can probably do other things as well, like become a clown.

Okay, enough facts and quesions for the moment. There's nothing here that much changes my own theory about this being a demon who masquerades as different characters. There's a few things that go along with it but nothing I'd consider hard evidence.

Gonna go read what Sandi and David had to say and maybe add on to their theories.

Very entertaining episode.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:34 am

@sandi wrote:
sandi's new theory on No Name's Identity

Yes, it pains me to say, No Name is not Pennywise.  How cool would that have been?

So ... here goes ... don't groan.

I think No Name is the Fourth Horsemen of the Apocalypse or a similar creature.

The Fourth Seal—Death
Revelation 6:7-8 NASB wrote:
When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come.” I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with [c]pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.
LINK

Wiki wrote:
This fourth, pale horse, was the personification of Death with Hades following him jaws open receiving the victims slain by Death. Its commission was to kill upon the Roman Earth with all of the four judgements of God — with sword, famine, pestilence and wild beasts. The deadly pale and livid appearance displays a hue symptomatic of approaching empire dissolution.  LINK

Just consider this ...


  • In what is probably Lacy's last visit with No Name before killing himself, Lacy says that God spoke to him six nights in a row and told him where to find "the devil" (location in the quarry).  Lacy also describes No Name as "dragging evil behind you everywhere you went".
  • We watch as No Name takes a walk through the neighborhood and follows the sound of Shirley Temple singing a couple of well-known tunes.  We see a happy, loving family celebrating a child's birthday.  As No Name draws near, the family starts to bicker with the anger and aggression escalating as No Name moves through their house up to the roof.  At the end, we hear the sounds of violence as the family kills each other.  No Name didn't lift a finger against anyone -- he didn't have to -- just his presence was enough to bring out the worst in them which resulted in their deaths.
  • What's happened since No Name was brought up out of his cage?

    • Lacy killed himself.
    • The new warden placed another prisoner inside No Name's cell hoping he would kill No Name and solve all their problems.  That prisoner (in great physical shape), a few hours later, is discovered dead -- from natural causes -- his body riddled with cancer, failing organs and other death causing maladies.
    • Zalewski (after a fist bump with No Name) went on a killing spree inside Shawshank and shot the other guards before he himself was shot to death.
    • wildfires (so bad, people around the lake had to be evacuated from their homes)
    • At the Pangborn bridge dedication ceremony, a pet dog suddenly becomes agitated -- in fact, the dog looks like it would ferociously kill anyone it could get close to.
    • Also at the Pangborn bridge dedication ceremony, Henry's mother tries to commit suicide by jumping off of the bridge.
    • Happy Birthday family kills itself when No Name enters their home.
    • There's probably other things I missed.


  • No Name appears gaunt, pale and hollow-eyed.  (I think Bill Skarsgård went on a severe diet for this role.)  I mention No Name's appearance because it fits with the "Pale" Horseman that Death follows around.  It all just fits.


So, is the answer Biblical?  I don't know.  If No Name is not the Fourth Horsemen, he's surely a creature just like it.  I wonder if Pestilence is his name?  


This would be an excellent story to tell. Honestly, I'd watch it. Castle Rock is not that story. You make some excellent correlations here. My disconnect comes because those connections not really exclusive to the fourth horseman. There are several of them though, but nothing concrete.

I am yet again impressed with your detective skills.

In my experience with Stephen King, his baddies are monsters of his own making with only minor resemblances of anything that's been crafted before. Those resemblances are usually only in there to lend some credibility to the monster so that it is easier for the reader to buy in.

Plus

As I sit here, the quarry, from the warden's speech, comes to mind. Why the quarry? Surely it's another piece to the puzzle.

@sandi wrote:
S01E05  

Don't read if you haven't watched.




@sandi wrote:
We watch as No Name takes a walk through the neighborhood and follows the sound of Shirley Temple singing a couple of well-known tunes.  We see a happy, loving family celebrating a child's birthday.  As No Name draws near, the family starts to bicker with the anger and aggression escalating as No Name moves through their house up to the roof.  At the end, we hear the sounds of violence as the family kills each other.  No Name didn't lift a finger against anyone -- he didn't have to -- just his presence was enough to bring out the worst in them which resulted in their deaths.

Yes, I'm quoting myself.   blush

I may need to think about this a bit more -- the part where No Name didn't have to do anything active in order to achieve a result -- meaning just his presence is enough to cause tragedy.  I rewatched the episode and after No Name enters the house, he squats down just outside the room and looks in on the family.  He stares at the big butcher knife used to cut the birthday cake and seems to be quietly (without speaking or motioning) directing the outcome.  I don't know for sure -- anybody else?

At any rate, I haven't noticed him actively making anything else happen.

@sandi wrote:
What's happened since No Name was brought up out of his cage?

Adding to the list:
A helicopter exploded killing the pilot and two firefighters which brings the death toll of those fighting the fire to five.  In addition, it was reported that there are many others in the hospital in critical condition.  (So, it seems the fire is going to claim more lives which seemed to make No Name happy.)


Also -- Pangborn confronts No Name at the end of the episode.  We learn that Lacy captured No Name 27 years ago (that would make it about 1991 using today's year 2018.).  Pangborn has aged but he states No Name hasn't aged a day.  So we are dealing with someone other than human -- don't you think?

Also, I speculated earlier that No Name and Henry Deaver had some connection during the time Henry went missing when he was 11 years old.  Henry went missing circa 1991 -- just one more little piece of evidence to support that.

And BEWARE Alan Pangborn!  Yes, I have no doubt No Name can help Ruth Deaver and her dementia -- but -- trust on this -- you don't want that help.  The price tag will be huge!

My prediction:  Pangborn takes the help.  He loves Ruth so and he would be willing to pay any price for her.

I have much much more to talk about.  I think this episode moved the story forward and yet provided information to that gives context to what we already know.

That entire birthday scene was surreal. Late at night. No guests, or so it seemed. Shirley Temple LP sounding off from an old record player. Could the whole thing have been a flashback? Is Pennywise Gordon, and did he live there as a child where he'd find solace on the roof when his parents fought?

@Zaphod wrote:
hear ya john, i get jazzed up for this and Saul

Cool.

@davidalan wrote:
Don't read this if you haven't seen the episode.

All of today's and other events remind me of The Stand. Destruction to renew creation. In this case though what the renewed creation would be isn't clear. That's my take on first thought post-episode. That might, Sandi, be related to your very cool biblical theory. The destruction-creation construct has a spiritual theme certainly. But I don't know if No Name is a specific manifestation of one of the horseman so much as his own manifestation which the writers have put in a biblical framework. The old warden does mention six nights, right? Well, on the seventh we don't have rest, we have action. Abduction. But from where?


What interests me more though is No Name is presenting a duality. Maybe it is what I had said earlier: a battle within between the true kid and what demon is roaming around inside. Or maybe not.  I agree with the demon concept expressed earlier. Here we learn No Name hasn't aged one bit. I wonder then if the demon is actually there all the time (in It mode) and occupies a body until the body is gone. That might explain the lack of aging. The story Pangborn relates to No Name (and of course to us) is so compelling. I could have listened to it all day. But it's No Name's response that's interesting too. He suddenly has (more) voice. Awareness? It started with the piano yes. But I wonder if it also started with the Shirley Temple music. Anyway his response to Pangborn is quick and direct and without that avoidant look in his eye. Something's clicked.


I wonder too now if this demon-possession of whatever it is isn't passed down through a family. I say this because of No Name's fascination with the birthday party family. And now with the family, I wonder if No Name didn't specifically cause out of the nothing the murderous rage which we overheard, but basically removed the filters in normally civilized and restrained adults??? The real estate woman (can't remember her name) hears others' thoughts, and in Henry's case is now comfortable enough to repeat them back to him, kind of similar to all the repetition tests we witnessed with Henry two years ago and with No Name now. Maybe No Name taps into emotions? And since emotions are varied, well they aren't always benign. I now think of the blond woman who I kind of like. She's seems untouched by No Name's peculiarity. In fact when he must appear naked to her she didn't seem to mind? She might have not chastised him. Just said oh sorry. I don't know. She's perplexing.


Sandi, I'm reading back at your thoughts about No Name and Henry Deaver. I think they did run into each other. Whether they were both abducted or were both "hiding" or something, there's a connection. Of course, the former warden referred to Deaver directly before committing suicide. Anyway, this part of the story confuses me. We don't have enough information. Something tells me it's the piano. No Name and Henry are there together. No Name plays a tune. Did they have this experience before? I think of the creepy David Selby character. If anyone would abduct young boys, he would. Did Henry escape? Did No Name help him escape? Did Henry lash out at his father because he was the first he encountered? But also something went on with the Deaver family dynamic. Real estate woman as a girl seemed pretty sure that Mr. Deaver deserved a pillow.



Back to the scene with Panghorn and the former warden and No Name in the car. It's interesting that No Name is banging on the interior of the trunk, trying to get out. If he was demonically possessed, maybe it just started? Maybe No Name who had a real name wasn't really to be subdued. I half wonder now if the former warden was essentially tricked to keep No Name out of sight. Why? I don't know. My thoughts are scattered. I can't land on this fully. But you know. That's why I like this story a lot. It's clear there's a mystery but it's not clear what the mystery is. It's just, as I said, No Name is speaking clearly, and I think that's the turning point.

Regarding Henry and Pennywise, not sure if you read my take on it earlier in the thread, but I think Pennywise caught Henry back in 1991 but his father, Rev Deav, tracked down Pennywise and captured him before Pennywise could do whatever Pennywise does to the children. Possibly Pennwise does something with the children that keeps him from aging for a while. As per the It story, Pennywise may not have much time left before he needs to 'feed' on them again.

I figure that since Henry's dad is a reverend, and Pennywise is a demon, that somehow aided in Rev Deav's rescue of Henry.

That birthday party is still gnawing at me. It was a long scene and it was in there for a reason. I don't think we needed another long scene to show us that Pennywise has death power, even though it comes in a slightly different form this time. That would be a lot of show to waste on such a small detail. It does fit well with Sandi's theory though. However, I'm really coming into the mind that this was a flashback of an event that took place back in the days when Shirley Temple was still a little girl, or shortly thereafter. Or at least a long time before 1991.

If Gordon actually is Pennywise, or should I say trapped inside that body with and by Pennywise, we don't know how or when that happened. It could have been that night. We don't yet know who killed who or if anyone escaped or what specifically went down. But yes, I'm gonna say that whole thing was a Flashback, which means Gordon is manifesting, just like on the rooftop.

So there's the flashback and the rooftop. I'm going to watch again to see if there is anything else that looks like a Gordonism. These things often come in threes.

The line I bolded and enlarged, I think that's pretty much what's going on as far as 'the boy' character goes. You've nailed it. I wouldn't call it a battle though. Pennywise has him good, I think. I'm surprised he was even able to come to the surface after so long. Why would Pennywise let that slip? It wasn't like it was a message that the boy was struggling to send out to the world. It was more of an after thought. So, why would that come out as opposed to something more impactful? Maybe, after being locked up for so long and not having the need to censor that sort of thing, Pennywise is grown a bit sloppy. Maybe the boy has given up.

I'm probably missing things that totally contradict everything I've written which I'm sure will be brought to light soon. Had fun with these thoughts though.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:08 am

Gordie is how they refer to the birthday boy. I counted 7 candles on the cake.

The privatizing of the prison. This subtly comes up in just about every episode. Who would buy that place?

Pennywise seems to avoid touching people. This could be another sign of Gordie. He doesn't want to be a murderer..

Warden Lacy intentionally touches Pennywise. Lacy removes his glove and touches him. The glove itself looks out of place with regards to the warden's attire. So I'm thinking he was wearing the glove for the sole purpose of protecting himself from the boy. Which means he knows about the touch of death power. The only issue I have with this is that the warden is only wearing one glove, on his left hand. Why make drama out of removing it when you can simply touch the boy with your bare right hand, which he ends up doing anyway?

The intent is still unclear to me as well. Lacy says he still isn't certain what the boy is. So I don't know if touching the boy was a test to see if anything happens or a suicide attempt or... Thinking out loud, the only thing that leads me to think it might have been a test is the warden's statement about knowing what the boy is. However, if the warden knows what happens when you touch the boy, he wouldn't need to test it. Maybe the warden's information about the touch of death is second hand and he's never confirmed it. His conscience catches up with him and he must know. So I am going with it was a test, not a suicide attempt.

In 2016 while still in TX, Henry gets a CT scan due to the ringing in his right ear. At this time, he also undergoes a test where he has to repeat 5 words back to the tester in any order, which is a concussion test. After being released from prison, Pennywise gets the same test. The two tests have two words in common. Church and Family. Both men order the words so that Family is the last word. Coincidence?

Late at night, Pangborn comes home. He comes upon Ruth in the kitchen who is anxiously staring out a window. She says, "Where in God's name have you been? He's got a fever. You gotta kill him out there." She knows something.

During his speech, Pangborn explains how a magician needs to distract his audience to help him pull off his trick. Just then the dog starts barking. Everyone looks, including Ruth who appears to be scared shitless. Moments later, Ruth pulls off her own trick. In the hospital, Ruth states, "It was the damn dog. Nothing stays dead in this town." If I were her I'd be like, Houston sounds really nice this time of year.

On the floor near where Pennywise slept above Molly's office, Molly finds what looks to be white flower petals on the floor. She puts one in her mouth and then expels it with mild disgust. No clue what this is but thought I'd make note of it.

Pangborn bought a ring for Ruth but she wouldn't take it. The year was 1991.

The spoiler below is my own speculation based on what I've witnessed in the show and referential information regarding other Stephen King books that I found using google. None of it is an actual spoiler but I tagged it because I found...something.

Possible Spoiler:
 

"I shouldn't be here" has just taken on a whole new meaning.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:10 am

@davidalan wrote:
My thoughts are scattered. I can't land on this fully. But you know. That's why I like this story a lot. It's clear there's a mystery but it's not clear what the mystery is. It's just, as I said, No Name is speaking clearly, and I think that's the turning point.

I feel the same way.  There's so much I want to discuss and my thoughts are all over the place.  I'm having a hard time ordering them.  So, I'm going to tackle a couple of things at a time.  

I do plan on re-watching all of the aired episodes sometime this weekend and I'm going to keep a running list of specific items to look for.  So, if during our discussions, anyone has a specific question (dialogue, location, reference, etc.), please make a note and I'll add it to my list.  I'll keep that running list in this thread, so if anyone re-watches and finds an answer, please post it.

@Big John wrote:
On the floor near where Pennywise slept above Molly's office, Molly finds what looks to be white flower petals on the floor. She puts one in her mouth and then expels it with mild disgust. No clue what this is but thought I'd make note of it.

First -- it looks like No Name built himself a little structure to sit in.  I wonder why?  

Inside that structure, Molly finds "white flower petals" on the floor.    

BJ, when Molly leaves that area, the last shot we have is of a little carved statue in Molly's model of the town (Castle Rock).  I think the statuette looks like No Name and I think he carved it in his structure and those "white flower petals" are actually shavings from whatever substance he used to carve it from.  Maybe a large bar of white soap?  I don't know.

If the carving is to represent himself, then there is some significance to No Name carving it and placing it in the town.  Ideas?

From your spoiler -- "Make a fist"  -- I think that is most likely from this series when Zalewski showed No Name how to make a fist and do a fist bump.  I could be wrong.

More in a bit.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:02 am

@sandi wrote:

I do plan on re-watching all of the aired episodes sometime this weekend and I'm going to keep a running list of specific items to look for.  So, if during our discussions, anyone has a specific question (dialogue, location, reference, etc.), please make a note and I'll add it to my list.  I'll keep that running list in this thread, so if anyone re-watches and finds an answer, please post it.

Can't wait for this!

@sandi wrote:
@Big John wrote:
On the floor near where Pennywise slept above Molly's office, Molly finds what looks to be white flower petals on the floor. She puts one in her mouth and then expels it with mild disgust. No clue what this is but thought I'd make note of it.

First -- it looks like No Name built himself a little structure to sit in.  I wonder why?  

Inside that structure, Molly finds "white flower petals" on the floor.    

BJ, when Molly leaves that area, the last shot we have is of a little carved statue in Molly's model of the town (Castle Rock).  I think the statuette looks like No Name and I think he carved it in his structure and those "white flower petals" are actually shavings from whatever substance he used to carve it from.  Maybe a large bar of white soap?  I don't know.

If the carving is to represent himself, then there is some significance to No Name carving it and placing it in the town.  Ideas?

Wow. Again, great eye for detail and making connections. I did notice how that little statue was a focal point, Had not a clue what to make of it though. Upon seeing it the first time, my initial thought was that it resembled Ruth standing on the bridge just before she jumped. Hmm, so maybe I did have clue. Didn't give it a thought after that though. I need to look at that again now.

@sandi wrote:
From your spoiler -- "Make a fist"  -- I think that is most likely from this series when Zalewski showed No Name how to make a fist and do a fist bump.  I could be wrong.

More in a bit.

Yes! That's gotta be it! Make a fist. I wanna go solve crimes with you.
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Big John

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:23 am

Rewatched the statue scene. I think you're bang on right about that little statue being carved by the boy using soap in his makeshift workshop. I never would have pieced all that together so quickly.

Here's a pic of the statue:



I thought, perhaps, my impression the statue appearing to be Ruth standing on that bridge was simply influenced by the fact that the bridge scene was what immediately preceded. After taking this latest look at it, I believe that Pennywise was the architect of the bridge scene, and we are shown the statue immediately after the bridge scene partially for that reason.

I think you're right about the statue resembling himself. I believe that Pennywise, with the carving and it's curious placement in the model, is representing that he is the one who sent Ruth off the bridge.

The only other explanation I can conceive is that the boy carved what he witnessed happen to Ruth (through his minds eye or whatever power he has). Meaning the statue represents the actual malevolent force the caused Ruth's fall. I don't like this explanation as well as the other one so I'm sticking with the theory that it is a carving of himself.

That leaves me with one question. Why? Why would he carve that? Is it a voodoo type thing? Is he just proud of his work?

Why attack Ruth? Was Pennywise the one with the fever that she said Pangborn's got to kill? I know that statement was probably Ruth having her own flashback, but of what though? Is she thinking of the night Pangborn pulled Lacy over? Or, is she thinking she is talking to Rev Deav about his confrontation with Pennywise?

Ruth is close to the center of this mess somehow. Ruth, Rev Deav, Pangborn, Lacy, and Desjardins... they're all connected by something. Like, maybe they're an 'It' group as well. Whatever it is, it runs a lot deeper than just being small town lifelong chums.

So, I had to look up the cast list in order recall Desjardins' name. Remember the home buyer who admired the painting of Castle Lake?
His name is:
 
.


Last edited by Big John on Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:46 am

I forgot about the figure (now soap) and the expansive diorama. Maybe No Name is using a visual to place himself in the town. Had he lost his identity up to that point? On a weirder note, it also reminded me of the results of onanism, or sex.


So it appears with the birthday house what we have is a memory? Is No Name one of the kids? Is the guy who drove into town (Gordon) the other? That guy was kind of creepy. I figure he'll be a player later in the series.


I didn't pay close attention to all of what I now believe were memories that No Name was experiencing on the roof. It was probably some of the familiar SK quotes plus a few new ones. A great scene btw.


I like the Church and Family observation. I didn't realize it was a concussion test. But it probably has other uses. This is a sign for me that Rev Deaver was a part of something or wasn't all right. And I agree now that there is a connection between major players way back when.


eta: The part where No Name offers to help Ruth reminds me of the Green Mile (movie) where John Coffee, although condemned to prison and worse, helps the warden's wife. Of course, No Name was in a prison---a prison within a prison! But now out in the world, when Pangborn confronts him, No Name offers to help. The motives of course remain mysterious. Maybe No Name simply thought of doing so.
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