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 Castle Rock - HULU

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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:55 pm

The devil is in the details. That's funny. grin
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sandi

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:25 am

As I've stated, I'm going to continue to work on the transcripts and timeline for season one.  But I do want to get in some thoughts and hear your thoughts before re-watching.

First, the Schisma.  The schisma isn't a doorway or a place -- it's the sound.  (Can you hear it now?)
This is what Odin says about the schisma.


S01E06 wrote:
HENRY DEAVER:  You're saying --You're saying my dad believed he could hear God out here.
WILLIE translating:  For a time.  The ancients called it the --
ODIN BRANCH:  Music of the Spheres.
Music of the Speres from wiki:
 

WILLIE translating:  Of course, I have a more scientific view.  The nature of the schisma is the preferred nomenclature now.
HENRY DEAVER:  So you don't believe God is talking directly to you?
WILLIE translating:  Henry, I have advanced degrees in bio and psychoacoustics.  Best I can tell, schisma is actually nanoscale turbulences caused by cochlear quantum totalities abrading in parallel.  Other ears, other nows.  All possible pasts, all possible presents.  Schisma is the sound of the universe trying to reconcile them. (note: the other "ears" maybe "years" -- I have to listen more closely.  But "ears" could be correct because of the descriptive word cochlear.)

Rephrase:  The schisma is the sound of the universe trying to reconcile all possible pasts, all possible presents.  

The schisma is not in itself a location but rather the sound that emanates from a *source location.

There seems to be a recurring period when this sound is at its strongest.  

There seems to be a "doorway" or portal at the source location when the recurring period occurs.  

  • We have young Attorney (Atty) Henry in Jan 1991, disappearing into thin air within a blink of an eye, at the top of the cliff he pushed Rev. Deaver off of.
  • In 2018, we have Dr. Henry, forcing Atty Henry at gunpoint, to lead him to that "doorway" -- and Dr. Henry has stated there wasn't much time -- several times.


These two pieces of information lead me to believe, there is indeed a "doorway" or portal to another place/time or plane of existence.  Whether or not it's the alternate reality that Dr. Henry describes or something else altogether remains to be seen.

*source location -- For ease in discussion, I suggest we call this source location a "thinny".   I watched SK's TV series, "Haven", and that's a term used in it.

Thinny definition - two sources:
 
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sandi

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:01 am

What is the nature of the beast?  or in this case, the monster?

Was Dr. Henry born a monster?  Did the monster need a host and choose Dr. Henry?  Did the monster need a host and choose some poor unfortunate soul, who the monster calls, Dr. Henry Deaver?

While I do believe that some men become monsters, I don't believe that in the literal sense.  In other words, when looking at a Dahmer, we wouldn't see the kind of face that Atty Henry saw when he looked at Dr Henry in the woods that night.  We might see a face filled with malice and hate but we wouldn't see a deformed monster face.

What strikes me is Ruth's reaction to Dr. Henry.  She sees him outside her kitchen window and says that she thought they buried him in that suit.  And it's evident throughout S01E07, that Ruth sees Dr. Henry as her husband, Rev. Matthew Deaver.  Why is that?

Dr. Henry doesn't resemble Rev. Deaver at all.  So, it's not like a possible natural born son being the spitting image of his father.  So, why does she see her dead husband when looking at Dr. Henry?  Does she see the same monster face that Atty Henry sees in the woods when Dr. Henry tries to force him to take him to doorway?  If she does, what does that mean?  Did she see the same face on her dead husband?  Maybe ...

Maybe some time in the Reverend's ancestral past, some devil/demon/monster, found a compatible human bloodline and procreated into it.  Maybe Rev. Deaver was born a monster and for the most part was able to conceal his true nature.  Maybe the Rev. and Ruth's natural born son who died in childbirth ("no name" given) was born with an unconcealed monster face and was helped along to heaven. Maybe.

Maybe young Atty Henry saw that monster face when the Rev. told him he was going to kill Ruth.  And maybe that's why young Atty Henry pushed him off the cliff.  And maybe that's why young Molly said, IT wasn't his father.  Or ... maybe Rev. Deaver was an unlucky soul who was being used as a host to the monster?  And when young Atty Henry pushed him off the cliff, the monster escaped into young Atty Henry rather than die in Rev. Deaver's host body.  And ... maybe young Atty Henry, now a host to a monster, really was a captive in an alternate reality and upon returning, the monster escaped into Dr. Henry but wound up being cage again.  Maybe.
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sandi

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:17 am

And let's talk about Atty Henry for just a minute. We have nothing to indicate that anyone other than Atty Henry heard the schisma well enough to locate the thinny source. Well, there is an indication that Wendell, Atty Henry's son hears the schisma as strongly as his father does. This indicates to me, that this ability is inherited. (Most likely a genetic structure of the cochlea in some way.)

Since it appears genetic, I'm wondering if his father or mother also was able to hear the schisma's source? Which makes me wonder what happened to his real father and mother. And it also makes me wonder if this is why Rev. Deaver wanted to adopt Henry -- keep his doorway finder handy?
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sandi

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:09 pm

Sometimes I think that Atty Henry and Dr. Henry are two sides to the same coin.

Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:41 am
@davidalan wrote:
... But then how was this henry from New York (I gather) and with a fancy job and a girlfriend/wife/partner suddenly thrust in the wintery scene where he witnessed an icy lake reunion between that disappeared Henry and Pangborn? Maybe he's just an automatic parallel to the other Henry? ...


It seems to me that TPTB are leading us to that conclusion.  Some things that jumped out at me (and I'll be looking for similar instances when I re-watch.)

S01E01
Quote :
MAN IN BACKGROUND WHEN HENRY IS INSIDE CHURCH:  ..  9-12 says, "But two are better than one, "because they have a good return on their labor.  If either of them falls down, one can help the other up.  But pity anyone who falls."

Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:16 pm
@Big John wrote:
...

The last of these is when Henry Deaver enters the room inside the new B&B where all of warden Lacy's paintings of The Kid are hung. Henry finds one dated 1991. We are shown the painting then we are flashed to the Missing Child poster of Henry from 1991. Here are those two images:




In the painting, The Kid is wearing the same outfit as Henry. Maybe, just maybe, The Kid is 8 year old Henry, the portion of Henry that the present day Henry has no memory of.

And let's not forget ... Ruth, hiding in the shower, stabs Dr. Henry in the right side (which he favors throughout the remainder of the season.)  And perhaps the real reason we had the B&B episode -- Mrs. Gordon stabs Atty Henry in the left side (which he favors throughout the remainder of the season.)

Atty Henry: Black
Dr. Henry : White

Atty Henry: adopted
Dr. Henry: biological son (most likely if alternate reality is true)

Is there more that is not contained in the alternate reality painted by Dr. Henry?  Probably ... I certainly want to pay closer attention to those soap carvings and whether or not the two Henrys are right and left-handed.
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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:44 pm

@sandi wrote:
And let's talk about Atty Henry for just a minute.  We have nothing to indicate that anyone other than Atty Henry heard the schisma well enough to locate the thinny source.    Well, there is an indication that Wendell, Atty Henry's son hears the schisma as strongly as his father does.  This indicates to me, that this ability is inherited.  (Most likely a genetic structure of the cochlea in some way.)

Since it appears genetic, I'm wondering if his father or mother also was able to hear the schisma's source?  Which makes me wonder what happened to his real father and mother.  And it also makes me wonder if this is why Rev. Deaver wanted to adopt Henry -- keep his doorway finder handy?


The difference between Henry and Wendell is that Henry has no desire to follow the sound to its source, where Wendell says that he was drawn to it. Which was why he went into the woods. I wonder if the source of the sound was just beyond the Odin murder scene.


I said earlier that the only black man we see in the string of images is a prisoner escaping with a white man. Maybe he's Henry's biological father. Or earlier in the family line. I doubt it's Odin. Just because if it is, why not say so? The prisoner, if only as an image, a symbol, makes more sense.


Rev Deaver would have some connection to orphanages. Maybe he heard about this kid who kept hearing some strange sound.
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sandi

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:24 pm

@davidalan wrote:
@sandi wrote:
And let's talk about Atty Henry for just a minute.  We have nothing to indicate that anyone other than Atty Henry heard the schisma well enough to locate the thinny source.    Well, there is an indication that Wendell, Atty Henry's son hears the schisma as strongly as his father does.  This indicates to me, that this ability is inherited.  (Most likely a genetic structure of the cochlea in some way.)

Since it appears genetic, I'm wondering if his father or mother also was able to hear the schisma's source?  Which makes me wonder what happened to his real father and mother.  And it also makes me wonder if this is why Rev. Deaver wanted to adopt Henry -- keep his doorway finder handy?


The difference between Henry and Wendell is that Henry has no desire to follow the sound to its source, where Wendell says that he was drawn to it. Which was why he went into the woods. I wonder if the source of the sound was just beyond the Odin murder scene.

But Wendell didn't have a father, waking him up at all hours of the night to go into the woods looking for the sound. Henry may have been drawn to the sound as well if he didn't have those unhappy prior experiences to rebel against.

Excellent point about the source and I would think that the Odin murder scene was, indeed, in line with the source of the sound. It's evident that is where Wendell was heading. If he were merely headed back to Castle Rock -- much easier to stick to the road.


@davidalan wrote:
I said earlier that the only black man we see in the string of images is a prisoner escaping with a white man. Maybe he's Henry's biological father. Or earlier in the family line. I doubt it's Odin. Just because if it is, why not say so? The prisoner, if only as an image, a symbol, makes more sense.


Rev Deaver would have some connection to orphanages. Maybe he heard about this kid who kept hearing some strange sound.

You know david, I don't know if anything or anyone we saw in relation to the "thinny" like the prisoners and the colonial girl with a knife was independent of Dr. Henry's story. That's another thing I'll be looking at when re-watching.

And yes, it's very possible that Rev. Deaver found young Atty Henry at an orphanage -- very possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:41 pm

@sandi wrote:


Maybe some time in the Reverend's ancestral past, some devil/demon/monster, found a compatible human bloodline and procreated into it.  Maybe Rev. Deaver was born a monster and for the most part was able to conceal his true nature.  Maybe the Rev. and Ruth's natural born son who died in childbirth ("no name" given) was born with an unconcealed monster face and was helped along to heaven. Maybe.

I think that's a possibility given NN's story about Rev Deaver's mother trying to kill him as an infant.
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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:00 pm

@sandi wrote:





But Wendell didn't have a father, waking him up at all hours of the night to go into the woods looking for the sound.  Henry may have been drawn to the sound as well if he didn't have those unhappy prior experiences to rebel against.

Excellent point about the source and I would think that the Odin murder scene was, indeed,  in line with the source of the sound.  It's evident that is where Wendell was heading.  If he were merely headed back to Castle Rock -- much easier to stick to the road.

Well, there is Henry's father and its unshaking obsession, that's true. But I interpret Henry's action and expression is wanting to stay away from the sound specifically. I would interpret Henry has having some (hidden) memory as to what that sound ultimately leads to or does (Henry's earlier disappearance---if factual).

Wendell's response to the sound reminded of It and the dead lights: the long ago miniseries version.

@sandi wrote:



You know david, I don't know if anything or anyone we saw in relation to the "thinny" like the prisoners and the colonial girl with a knife was independent of Dr. Henry's story.  That's another thing I'll be looking at when re-watching.

And yes, it's very possible that Rev. Deaver found young Atty Henry at an orphanage -- very possible.


Well, I'll tell ya. Until the vision is totally disproven, I'm going with it as factual, as I am with No Name and Henry each having been on the other side. I like it. It's just the better story. Even if No Name is a demon in his original timeframe. No Name being a demon is one thing, but the question is why force Henry with the weakest gunpoint in history to go there?

I think what maybe fouled up the schisma or the skinny or the timeframes or what have you was Henry and No Name returning together. Too much portal activity all the once.
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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:11 pm

Okay I'm looking at the portrait of No Name and the poster of missing young Henry and of course the same shirt has been pointed out but why the same shirt? Did Lacey use the poster as a model for painting No Name? I mean specifically in that attire? Or was that a little nudge from the writers to perceive both Henry and No Name as missing? I guess I'm answering my own question there, but the Lacey thing now interests me. What about the other portraits? Do the details match other details in Lacey's visual world? Or did No Name ever describe his own (truthful or fraudulent) circumstance of arrival coinciding with Henry in such a way that Lacey just went ahead and painted No Name wearing Henry's shirt as an artistic response? I wonder too if the other Rev Deaver had a similar penchant for art. Tapes seemed to be his gig. Narration. Sermons. Made sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:07 am

I finally found and rewatched the scene (it's in Ep 4 - "The Box") when Henry visits Josef Desjardin's place.  Henry found a locked crate in the back, broke the lock an found a crusty old bowl with a spoon inside. Something pretty ef'd up happened in that box and I believe Henry partly remembered.  Henry's visions and nightmares of the cage could very well be the time he spent in that crate.   My bet is that Desjardin found Henry in the woods, kidnapped him and locked in there.  This might account for part, if not all of his missing time after he threw his father over the cliff.    Desjardin said he didn't touch Henry, but yeah right, we're going to believe him?    My question is why did Desjardin let him go?  Maybe Henry escaped?
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:17 am

The Desjardin place is definitely on my re-watch list of possible Atty Henry's location during the missing 11 days. I'm particularly interested in any signs of soap shavings. When Pangborn found young Atty Henry, he was clutching a soap figure carving. Did he have that before he went missing? I don't know. There doesn't appear to be any mention of soap carving in young Atty Henry's timeline -- just Dr. Henry's which could all be lies.

Desjardin being young Atty Henry's kidnapper doesn't explain young Henry's sudden disappearance from the cliff. That bothers me and in my mind presents a problem for most solutions that do not include a "doorway" to somewhere else. I'm trying to keep my mind open when re-watching so I don't miss any clues to the contrary though.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:23 pm

The Desjardin angle is totally possible. That's what I wondered way at the beginning when Henry took a tour of the place. Why all that time there if it's not relevant?

Sandi: By sudden disappearance do your mean there was an edit and young Henry wasn't there? Or do you mean the entire time of his disappearance? If the latter, then he simply may have run off. Whether he stumbled in the schisma/skinny or ended up caged up at the Desjardin estate, well that's open yet, because we don't know, because we weren't told. If the leaning is towards No Name lying about his own experience, then Henry had to end up somewhere. Maybe it was No Name himself who saw the chance and freed Henry (without touching Henry 'cause apparently that's bad news or you end up murdering people or driving off a cliff or walking in front of a bus although the last one was voodoo i guess or maybe No Name's residual DNA's the problem but if that was the case everyone in town would be toast) and set up the reunion between young Henry and Pangborn on the ice. Missing pieces! Missing pieces! Loose ends! Loose ends!
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:30 pm

david wrote:
Sandi: By sudden disappearance do your mean there was an edit and young Henry wasn't there? Or do you mean the entire time of his disappearance?

"Sudden disappearance" -- by that I meant -- young Henry pushes his dad off the cliff -- after a shot of the rev at the bottom -- the camera stays on young henry at the top of the cliff and then he's just gone -- "poof" -- we're looking at where he should have been but disappeared into thin air.

I have another post I'm working on that's related.
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sandi

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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:52 pm

Remember this scene at the end of S01E01?

CASTLE ROCK LAKE/HENRY ARRIVES ON THE BLUFF WHERE WARDEN LACY COMMITTED SUICIDE/THERE'S AN INFORMAL MEMORIAL AGAINST ONE OF THE TREES/HENRY PICKS UP A TEDDY BEAR FROM THE ITEMS LEFT THERE/HENRY'S BREATH CAN BE SEEN AND WHEN HE LOOKS UP, SEES SNOW FALLING/HENRY TURNS TOWARDS THE LAKE AND STARTS WALKING TO THE EDGE OF THE BLUFF/PANGBORN'S WORDS FROM HENRY'S RESCUE IN 1991 PLAY OVER THE SCENE:  Shhh it!  Said it was minus-forty last night.  You know how cold that is?  Freeze to death in an hour.  And you've been gone for eleven days.  So what happened out there?/BY THE TIME HENRY REACHES THE BLUFF'S EDGE THE GROUND IS COVERED WITH SNOW/THE CAMERA DRAWS BACK AND WE SEE THE BACK OF WHAT LOOKS LIKE YOUNG HENRY DEAVER STARING AT THE BACK OF ADULT HENRY DEAVER/HENRY SEEMS TO FEEL SOMEONE IS WATCHING/HE LOOKS BACK OVER HIS SHOULDER BUT NO ONE IS THERE AND THE SNOW IS NOW ALL GONE.


To my way of thinking, there's just two ways to explain that scene -- adult Atty Henry is remembering pushing his father off the cliff or -- when young Henry was in the "thinny" and able to see past, present and future events which happened in that location -- young Henry was waiting for his father (Rev Deaver) to follow his footsteps and then young Henry was going to push him off the cliff.  But young Henry connected with a future point and actually saw himself as an adult, standing in the very spot that Rev Deaver either was going to stand in or was actually standing in that spot 1991 -- but young Henry was actually seeing that spot in 2018.  (I hope that makes sense.)

If the above scene was a memory, then we would only see the action and scenery as seen by Atty Henry (either in 2018 and/or 1991) but that's not the case.  We see the back of young Henry as if the entire scene is being viewed by a third party standing behind young Henry (which I believe is us -- the audience).  Given that pov, I do not think that this is a memory.  Also, adult Atty Henry's reaction to the falling snow and the sense that someone was behind him speaks against it being a memory.

That leaves 1991 young Henry viewing 2018 Adult Atty Henry in that space between realities.  And if this is so, it is evidence that at least that space where other people from different time periods can be seen as if they are all in the present (like the colonial girl and the prisoners) does indeed exist and young Henry was in it.  -- And Dr. Henry did not present this -- therefore it isn't tainted by, what could be, his lies about an alternate reality.

Thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:18 pm

Hey there, Sandi. Are you just trying to prove that the schisma exists? I don't think anyone is disputing that.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:39 pm

@Big John wrote:
Hey there, Sandi. Are you just trying to prove that the schisma exists? I don't think anyone is disputing that.

All of the images -- colonial girl, prisoners, etc -- showing young Henry's journey in that space -- unless I'm not remembering correctly -- are directly connected with Dr Henry's story. As I recall, it's his narrative alone that establishes those characters -- down to the bloody knife colonial girl grasped in her hand. If I don't believe anything in Dr. Henry's narrative to Molly, then I have nothing showing that space/time where young Henry could encounter colonial girl.

So, at least this scene from S01E01 could be evidence that there indeed is a location near Castle Lake where young Henry could encounter someone from a different time period. As such, it would lend some weight to at least that part of Dr. Henry's story.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:00 pm

The only weight I see it lending is that the monster is again using reality as a mirror to the tale he spins. It's like saying that we should add weight to his tale because he is able to describe the Deaver house. You know what I'm saying?
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:14 pm

@Big John wrote:
The only weight I see it lending is that the monster is again using reality as a mirror to the tale he spins. It's like saying that we should add weight to his tale because he is able to describe the Deaver house. You know what I'm saying?

Oh, I know what you're saying. And I'm not trying to prove anything nor am I trying to disprove anything. I'm merely seeking information. In the case cited -- the information may help explain how young Henry suddenly disappeared and/or where he was during those 11 days he went missing.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:18 pm

I see. Well go get 'em girl!
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:44 am

S01E01
When Atty Henry arrived the first day, Ruth was out back, spreading de-icing rock salt in the area next to fence/gate  which separated the woods from her yard.  She kept glancing into the woods.  Ruth had on a jacket and a knit cap -- pulled down over her ears.

Easy to note and just move on -- but, that very same evening, 2018 Atty Henry and 1991 young Henry are both standing on the snow-covered bluff where Lacy committed suicide.

So, I'm wondering if Ruth was briefly in 1991 again -- not Alzheimer's but unstuck in time -- and if that's so, I'm wondering how big is the area surrounding the door to somewhere else -- the area that allows certain people to see other people from different times/realities.  Then again, if she's "unstuck in time" maybe she doesn't need to be that close to the "door".


Also, speaking of Ruth  -- recall when she's on the bridge again and Molly shows up to talk her down.  Ruth says something indicating this same scene has happened several times for her.  Molly says something and Ruth says something like -- you always say that.  Then Molly says something else and that seems to get Ruth more focused and she says something like -- you've never said that before.

I haven't been back to the scene to pull the exact words -- but the concept of Molly saying something that she's never said before makes me think something changed.  Somewhere along the line -- a different choice was made -- someone did or did not do something that lead to Molly saying something "she never said before".  

Did anyone think that? ... or have ideas about it?
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Rock - HULU    Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:12 pm

I believe the area surrounding the Schisma, Castle Rock and it's outskirts are effected by the Schisma and if Odin is correct and the Schisma is the nexus of all the alternate universes, then it's possible that Ruth is not only time skipping, but also skipping in alternate realities. I wonder if all Alzheimer patients in Castle Rock are experiencing the same phenomena or is Ruth a special case?
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