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 Nagini uproar

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Zaphod

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PostSubject: Nagini uproar   Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:28 am

I hadn't even heard of this 'controversy' til I ran across it this morning.

https://www.bustle.com/p/jk-rowlings-response-to-the-nagini-controversy-isnt-going-over-well-with-harry-potter-fans-on-twitter-12033524

this is a no-win, as fans are fickle on what they get hypersensitive about esp on the net.
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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: Nagini uproar   Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:25 pm

I guess it's complicated since the source is Indonesian, the source word is Sanskrit, the actress playing the snake woman is Korean, but in the JK universe the snake was found in Albania. I personally don't care about the movie future of the HP universe because I couldn't watch more than ten minutes of Creatures. But it must be difficult for fans when the creators don't remember things from earlier on. It would be the same if oh GRRRRRRRRRR Martin in books six and seven contradicted facts in the earlier five. But we'll never know that. This only discussion worth having is the politics of having the woman becoming the snake servant vis-a-vis diversity in film but even there it's more important to look at films overall than to focus on this one event. As I said, maybe if the one film I couldn't stand was as good as the HP franchise? I lean towards folks finding other creative outlets if they're unhappy with this one. I certainly recommend that with GRRRRRRRRRRRRR Martin.
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Zaphod

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PostSubject: Re: Nagini uproar   Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:21 pm

this brings up a very interesting point. when did we decide authors should not retcon their works? it is their fiction, and they are free to do with it as they wish. if the readers wish to impose canon-ism on prior works that is their option (and granted as a fiction reader, it does make understanding a series of books 10x easier if there is consistency in the history), but i don't find a writer should feel constrained to bend their realities if they wish to. esp in terms of sci-fi, where you can posit multiple realities etc.
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Pi-O-My

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PostSubject: Re: Nagini uproar   Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:14 pm

I’ll stay away from the Nagini problem, but I’m glad to throw in my two cents on retconning. I think it’s like “sexual content” in any media– if it’s done well, it’s art but if it’s done poorly, it’s smut.

Arthur Conan Doyle killed off Sherlock Holmes but was forced by his public to undo the murder. That was a retcon if there ever was one, but I’m grateful for it. Joss Whedon killed off Buffy when he thought her series was cancelled but when it was uncancelled, he came up with a smart way to bring her back (and deal with the aftereffects.) Part of why it worked was that a couple of characters did die, and stayed dead. He even made fun of the way comics characters have a tendency to undie in the final episode of Buffy, when Principal Wood played possum with Faith.

When the original iteration of Neverwhere was broadcast on the BBC, there was a significant continuity error, but when Gaiman wrote the novelization (which he began writing almost from the beginning of production on the tv series) he didn’t solve the problem, which was less glaring on the written page. He promised, in the commentary on the tv series’ dvd among other places, that some day he’d write about how the Marquis got his coat back between episodes, and he eventually did, quite charmingly. (IIRC, Carey and Fabry dealt with it in the excellent comics version by changing the Marquis’ clothing so his missing coat, and its deep pockets, weren’t relevant.) So for me, that's art.

Whedon shoehorning in a sister for Buffy when he (or his masters) decided that the Slayer was getting a bit long in the tooth for the teen audience wasn't so successful. I learned to live with it, like Buffy did -- with protest, then acceptance. So that retcon was a sort of middle ground. But the way he monkeyed around with characters in the final episodes of Dollhouse (a series I liked a lot) in order to create surprise villains -- sorry, Joss, that felt like smut.
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Zaphod

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PostSubject: Re: Nagini uproar   Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:23 pm

so....if it's an agreeable retcon, we're good with it, but if we disagree, it's not?? again, we are back to this is the author's work. the author creates the character, by reading you are gaining insite but really have no input into the character (aside from of course if you write the author and plead your case, in which case yes you've cracked into the source of the character at least slightly by contacting them.) I am not one to say authors are automatically locked into canon by publication of their work - if they wish to re-imagine a character or their motives/etc, i'm fine with that. just as people can change in a day if they have a near death experience, so can a character change if they have some experience we're not privy to.
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