Doctor Who

The first Doctor had his granddaughter and they were joined with 2 others... like his teacher and his girlfriend or something like that..

Warthawg1 wrote:

I liked it. I enjoyed the episode story itself. I am not sure it would be an overarching story arc, but the rescue of those in trophy case stasis can certainly make another episode. I'm not even sure a season long story arc is really necessary.

I was okay with Whittaker. Less silly than Smith... more empathetic and caring than Capaldi, so yes she fits into the DT mold more than any other Doctor. That is a wise move in my opinion. Dealing already with
acceptance due to gender change, why not have the character be most like the most beloved previous Doctor...

The story itself as noted was solid in many ways. I Loved how it illustrated right away how The Doctor changes people from ones who run towards aliens instead of away from them. I mean that really is the message of Doctor Who; be accepting, be curious, be courageous, make a difference... even when those traits don't always end up great. It is still the right way to live. 

"Now you're all running towards it!"  

My friend watched the ep with me the other day, made a "aww, the Doctor inspiring people to grow" comment when Ryan was swallowing fears and going up the ladder to the crane.

Quote :

As far as the companions go, I liked Ryan the most by far. It seems they wanted each character to represent other previous companions or companion traits. We've got a Wilf... we've got a mashup of Donna/Bill (wants more), with Ryan being more of a gender reversed Rose... although the traits are not that clearly defined in each individual, all of those things are represented. I wonder if the idea of an ensemble was chosen because it spreads the attention away a bit from just Jody Whittaker in case she
struggled early in the role. With 4 characters there is more than enough to attract each potential viewer to something they like which may further ease the transition to a controversial choice of Doctor.

Anyway... I ramble.

It was solid.. I'm in.

I'm into the idea of 3 companions.  As noted, it's not like it's a brand new thing for the show.  And it could be awesome.
But if only one stays, it should be Ryan.

No one talking about episode 2?

The TARDIS makeover was pretty extreme. Along with the 3 companions it seemed to be another case of throwing as much at us to be of interest if we don't warm up to the new Doctor. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I don't remember the TARDIS changes being that extreme in the past.

Just watched, but now have to bed, but will prob watch again with Emma tomorrow, and then detailed comments.

First reaction:
--keep all 3 companions
--this is RTD shit and I LOVE the RTD shit
--I'm so fine with all of this
--except given the circumstances do the opening credits have to be so vaginal?
--Ryan's fucking charisma
--I'm so okay with Indiana Jones references
--this ep meets my approval real hard for many reasons
--weird Tardis to go with weird Sonic
--okay then

Warthawg1 wrote:

No one talking about episode 2?

The TARDIS makeover was pretty extreme. Along with the 3 companions it seemed to be another case of throwing as much at us to be of interest if we don't warm up to the new Doctor. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I don't remember the TARDIS changes being that extreme in the past.

I'm not loving the TARDIS makeover -- seems a bit gloomy to me.

I did like that we found out the name of the new enemy - the Stenza.  And they are not only responsible for missing humans but we found out they were the bad guys behind Angstrom and Epzo's planetary woes as well.  

I don't know about anybody else but I was disappointed in the Doctor when she gave up so quickly when the TARDIS didn't appear -- not very doctor-like at all.  (Did you notice -- she runs like a girl but sits like a man.  It's got to be hard switching genders after 12 lifetimes.)

About companions...in the early shows it was rare for there to be only one. The First Doctor set the standard with his "Granddaughter", her curious teacher, and his (the teacher's) girlfriend. I don't think that it was up until about the Sixth Doctor that having a single companion became the rule rather than the exception, and that was probably because budgetary constraints.

So far I like the Companions, but iffy on The Doctor. It's a neither good nor bad thing.

The Rosa episode was cute. Emma was excited because RP is one of the like five people they actually talk about a lot in Elementary School social studies.
It fit a pattern that RTD had-- first ep with new companion is their intro in their own time, next is the adventure in the future, then the historical episode. I guess with black guy and "Mexican" girl (lol) as companions, CRM was a fitting choice.
But mostly I just can't get over how the Doctor says the name "Graham" and I want her to say it a million times in each episode It's not as good as how Rowena says "FERGUS" in Supernatural, but close.
Stormcage shout-out... unless I'm mistaken, that's where River Song was held after "killing" the Doctor.
I may have to rewatch because I was watching with chattering Emma while making cookies, so I didn't catch all the details, but there didn't seem to be any tie-in with the Stenza. Unless the Stormcage comes into it.

I continue to enjoy the new companions. None of them getting on my nerves. Yaz still seems a little bland, but pleasant. I adore the shit out of Ryan. Graham still suffers from comparison to Wilf, although I suppose in ways he benefits from comparison to Wilf. I'd like to see him differentiate himself a bit from Wilf, maybe? There can only be one Wilf, Chibnall. Sorry that RTD beat you to it.

I think that Graham won't be around much longer, Sorry Vonne. He's served his purpose in introducing Ryan and I think they made him a bus driver specifically for the "Rosa" story line. Not really "bad" writing per se, IMO, but mildly dodgy at minimum. The writers of the new Jack Ryan series on Prime did something similar. It takes place early in Ryan's career and shows his first meeting with the woman he eventually marries...in the books at least. Clancy had Dr. Kathy Ryan, MD, be a Lasker Award winning eye surgeon at Johns Hopkins. In the new series, when they meet she is a specialist in Communicable Diseases. Bam...right off the bat the writers telegraph that Ebola is somehow going to be a part of the plot the terrorist has in store. Of course anyone who ever actually read Clancy would pick up on the difference, figure it out, and be asking the series writers "Who you guys think you are? Russell Davies?"

Then again, maybe I am just projecting. I am liking the developing chemistry between Yaz and Ryan. Their first meeting, in the forest, when they remembered each other from Primary, was cute. They might not wind up being "Ponds" awesome but a part of me says that things will go smoother if Graham isn't hanging about looking over Ryan's shoulder telling how happy his Nan would be for him getting a gal every ten minutes.

This was my least favorite episode so far. Most of the time with an episode like this there is a moral thematic 
as backgroud to a story. In this episode it felt like there was a story as background to a moral theme. At times 
The Doctor and her companions seemed secondary to Rosa Parks and the Crackers. Still seems they are a bit hesitant to let Jodie Whittaker carry an episode.

Also... The Tardis needs to be back in the opening. It's not right that it isn't.

Warthawg1 wrote:

This was my least favorite episode so far. Most of the time with an episode like this there is a moral thematic 
as backgroud to a story. In this episode it felt like there was a story as background to a moral theme. At times 
The Doctor and her companions seemed secondary to Rosa Parks and the Crackers. Still seems they are a bit hesitant to let Jodie Whittaker carry an episode.

Also... The Tardis needs to be back in the opening. It's not right that it isn't.

I don't like the opening, either.

I liked this ep, though.

UNLIKE THE MOST RECENT EPISODE, WHICH WAS PURE PRO-SPIDER PROPAGANDA.

No, they aren't more scared of you.

No, they aren't "living organisms with the right to live" blah blah blahhhh.

They should all have been destroyed with fire.

Total bullshit.

(Doctor Who portrayal of "Evil Americans" still cracks me up, though. And I don't know who the "Evil American" actor was, but I really liked him-- he had a manner to him that suited the comic nature of the episode without being over-done.

Either way, while toxic-waste-spiders don't have much on farting-aliens, I feel like we're continuing on the RTD-Season-1 Retread.

Which is still amusing me for now.

I'm alright with a break from Moffatt's "This is Serious Arc For Serious Show" style.

Although, if we continue on this path, there should be a "Dalek" or "Father's Day" coming up. Which would be good. I like the companions enough, but want more from them.*

*Which I think we'll get. I got to thinking about the only other thing I've seen from Chibnall, Torchwood, and how that was also more "ensemble" that ended up making some seriously great characters.)

Eh on this episode as well.

Eff all the spiders. Spiders alone was enough to make me dislike it, but overall I found it silly. In fact,
I don't know if I fell asleep or what, but one moment they were lamenting the giant spider fate in front 
of the big pit of toxic-America, and the next thing I know they were standing awkwardly in front of the
TARDIS wondering if The Doctor would be travelling alone. Other than the evil American shooting the 20 foot spider (that was dying anyway) with a handgun, I don't know if there was any other resolution to the 1000's
of 3 foot spiders already loose in the city.

Instead of being gripped by the past couple of episodes, I have found myself drifting away 2/3rds of the way into them, and it's the stories... not the new Doctor or the companions.

Like I said... I'm hoping that we're re-creating Davies and that was the farting aliens.

Warthawg1 wrote:

I don't know if I fell asleep or what, but one moment they were lamenting the giant spider fate in front 
of the big pit of toxic-America, and the next thing I know they were standing awkwardly in front of the
TARDIS wondering if The Doctor would be travelling alone. Other than the evil American shooting the 20 foot spider (that was dying anyway) with a handgun, I don't know if there was any other resolution to the 1000's
of 3 foot spiders already loose in the city.

I WAS WONDERING THIS MYSELF.

Granted, I was barely looking at the screen for much of this, because giant spiders, but we had the toxic waste, then some wild jamaican rap solved some kind of problem, then the mother spider got what was coming to her, and then it's time to move on?

Giant bugs because mad scientists + toxic waste. Awesome. Next the Doctor will face a psychopath who preys upon horny counselors at a summer camp. Can't wait.

/sarc

Okay...A little better, but the writing was spotty. "What century is it?" Um...didn't the Doctor know when she landed them on that junk planet? Don't think that sonic bomb blasted them through time and they had only been unconscious on the ship for four days, plus I think she would have known the century based upon the who the General she was talking with was. I mean, if I time travel and I am talking with Oda Nobunaga or Prince Eugen of Savoy I am not going to ask what century it is.

A little better...

Very little. This is becoming more difficult for me to hang in there. Female Doctor.. okay, I'm cool with that. Pregnant male... okay, I get the gender role reversal thing. I don't
need to be beat over the head with it. That served no darn purpose whatsoever other than shoving the gender reversal thing down my throat. The big bad villain looking like a Saturday morning cartoon. 

Meanwhile this progressive show so in tune with empowering and gender roles chooses to make this the first female Doctor's Sonic..

Notice anything unusual about it's shape compared to all the male Doctor's
Sonics??




Come on Doctor Who...

SMH

It's a G Spot wand. Goes right back to my comment in the other thread about Davies turning The Doctor into Bruce Willis with a blue box and an adult toy.

Well that comment was confusing mentioning Davies because this is the first time the
sonic has looked like a sex toy and the current Doctor doesn't seem a thing like Bruce
Willis. This is Chibnall's show.

Funny coming from a show that obviously thinks it is very modern in how it portrays 
womenz.

You folks are troopers. I'm following this thread to see if I should proceed, but so far, it's not looking likely.

The sonic screwdriver was always meant to be the nifty bit of gadgetry, equivalent to the goodies that 007 was given by Q at the start of every Bond movie. Spies are sexy so tech is sexy. Nevertheless, that was always downplayed by the classic Doctors. Pull the sonic out, use it for whatever, put it back in pocket. Post-production adds in sound FX. The Davies make-over, turning the Doctor into an action hero (Nice to meet you, Rose Tyler. Now run for your life!) Eccleston would occasionally flip the sonic in the air before putting it back in pocket. Several times I expected Smith to summon his patronus, the way he was waving it about.

The best thing about Clara, before the character went stale, was that she called out Davies's make-over with her "blue snog-box" comments.

Not to go all Freud, but there was a definite surrogate-penis aspect to the sonic during the Davies years. Sort of reminds me of the off-color jokes we used to make about E.T. What else can he do with that finger? Now we have a feminist-positive Doctor with a G Spot Wand sonic....but still waving about like she's about to summon a patronus.

Well again... what you call the Davies makeover is the only Doctor I have ever known. While quite phallic at times, I find the shaping of the sonic to be especially egregious in light of the current gender status of the Doctor. "Hey we are going to show how progressive we are regarding gender roles and haha snicker snicker we will give the first female Doctor a vibrator as a sonic."

That was all I really meant to speak to myself. 

Regarding the Davies makeover compared to the pre-reboot Doctors; all i can say is maybe it is just a sign of the times and what was needed to make The Doctor work with a new generation of viewers. It
certainly achieved a notable level of success.

Okay, let's go ahead and address the elephant.

The Doctor is a girl.

Before I even came here to comment, I was thinking about this while watching this episode.

Because yes, if anything, she's Girl 10. She doesn't have the childish goofiness of 11 or the surliness of 9 and 12. She's a bouncy, manic genius with emotions who could sell an "I'm so, so sorry." Girl 10. The only big difference I'm seeing is that she seems a bit less guarded than 10, and a bit more mature. Which is actually completely fitting, for the timeline. She's a lot older than he was. She's gotten past the tragedy that haunted 10 and doesn't have to hide herself from caring about people, and she has the maturity of a few more centuries of experience.
And the other big difference is that she's a girl.

Which adds this flavor of perception to EVERYTHING that I see her do. Is an action more passive because it's a girl doing it? Is the manic more "pixie-dream-girl" type because Tennant was a guy? I find myself thinking and analyzing what she does in this way.

And I'm a girl. And I originally had a BIG issue with a girl Doctor because, excluding 11, I've always enjoyed a sexual attraction to the Doctor and so changing her gender kind of ruined that. (Which still holds-- I like 13 but have no sexual draw to her at all, as opposed to the weird sexual draw I had to female Master).
But, done is done, and now I'm sitting here with my girlness, and her girlness, and wondering if that changes how I see her, and wondering if it changes how everyone sees her.

Which kind of spirals down to a "whoa" moment. Of how making the Doctor into a girl is kind of forcing an examination OF the differences between men and women filling the same roles in our own real-life world. And it makes me think that they didn't make the Doctor a girl because "it's our turn to be the Doctor" as much as how it gives this opportunity to look at the difference in our OWN context.

And what I'm seeing is a lot of neutrality. Of this studied, deliberate avoidance of talking about her being a girl. Because, to be the dreaded "PC," we aren't supposed to really NOTICE the gender change. It's supposed to be the same as any Doctor regen. Almost like it would be RUDE to comment on this, the elephant. So instead, we will be studiously "PC" and talk about every aspect of her OTHER than her girlness. It's a "I'm so non-racist, I don't even SEE color" situation. We're not even SEEING her being a girl. But, color exists, as does being a girl.

So-- I don't know if ya'll have noticed, but I've NOTICED something about the Doctor this season-- she's a GIRL now. And I noticed that a lot this past episode.
The famed "General" who died piloting the ship home was ALSO a girl. Because she's a girl, and the Doctor is a girl, I'm like "huh, are they making Strong Female Characters (TM)?"
But Adelaide Brooke, in Waters of Mars, was a girl.
And the captain in "42" was a girl.
And the captain in "Impossible Planet / Satan Pit" was a girl.
And there was a Girl Harriet Jones, Prime Minister.
And the "I'm the Bloody Queen" of the space whale England was a girl.
And I never batted an eye at any of those. But *THIS* time I was like, "oh, are they pushing a Girls-Can-Do-Stuff, You-Go-Girl" down our throat?
And did I feel that way because we had Girl General AT THE SAME TIME as the Doctor being a girl? Like, it was okay to have these token females when the Doctor was male, but now it's Too Much?

The show has referenced "male pregnancy" before with Captain Jack Harkness (and his line "Never doing THAT again"), but in THIS episode, it felt like a "Statement." Why? Because this episode, the Doctor is a girl.

And I keeping thinking of that scene, the Doctor is still recovering from the bomb, is in the nav room trying to change course to get back to the Tardis, and the (BOY! He's a BOY!) medic is talking her down (MANSPLAAAAIIIINNNING, lol) by reminding her that her emergency is not necessarily his problem, and she's being selfish and he needs to get his patients to safety. And she stops and says "hey, you're right."
And my reaction to that scene is not the same as it would be if the Doctor was still a boy. It's a different dynamic. Sorry PC, but it JUST IS. I'm thinking "Are they making her back down and relent because she's a girl and that's a girl thing?" and "Did they make her ignore him at first because that's a girl thing?" and "Is there some kind of attraction here with them"
And would I have had THOSE specific reactions if the Doctor was Tennant in this episode?

And, elsewhere in the internet, I've been seeing overly positive reactions to episodes that I thought were "meh" and I wonder "is it because she's a girl" and seeing overly negative reactions to episodes that I rather liked, and I wonder "it is because she's a girl."

And even if it's NOT because of that. The question is still there, lingering, subconsciously.

Which says a lot more about me, and other viewers, than it says about the Doctor.

Especially because Chibnall has been playing so conservatively and following a Davies Bible of sorts with the progression of the first episodes of this season. Nothing we've seen is that off-script from what we've seen before. I mean, ffs, the penultimate episode of S1 was the cast being transported into an evil killer "Big Brother" TV show. We've had interspecies lesbian couples as major recurring characters. We've had farting aliens. We had Adipose (on par with the cringingly bad CI monster of this ep).

So, to pause for a moment for this episode, it wasn't "Dalek" or "Father's Day" but I saw elements of both in it. And I liked the episode. I was trying to get some work done (making warm ups and exit tickets for next week) while watching, and finally gave up trying to work because every time I focused on what I was doing, I had to back the ep up and pay attention to it, so I just finally sat and watched the ep. It was good. Doctor and crew on a spaceship, alien threat, lots going on, figure it out, get rid of the threat, everyone has character development and goes home happy.
Was it "Girl in the Fireplace" or "Turn Left" or "Vincent and the Doctor"? LOL no. But it was a lot more entertaining than SO MANY previous episodes (in which the Doctor was a boy). I didn't feel like watching it was a waste of my time. I was entertained.

And what I REALLY liked? The characters. I liked the male medic. I liked the female medic. I liked the sibling dynamic, and the siblings' abilities coming together to solve the problem (even after the engineer had felt so disparaged because his abilities would never get him in the Book of Celebrants). I liked how Graham is slowly, in my mind, becoming not Wilf.2 but his own person with his own personality, and I LIKE him. And I swear, it's not just because he's quite pretty and has a voice I could listen to a LOT (although he is rather pretty and his voice, omg), Ryan keeps drawing me in more and more. The CHARISMA of this actor. He literally had tears in my eyes when he was talking with Yaz about his mom's death. And he made the pregnant dad not a gender-bend statement, but a statement of his own past and his father and it all WORKED for me. Right now Yaz continues to be just a place-filler who can conveniently guard the antimatter drive,* but Graham has a hard-headed charm that appeals, and Ryan is just so fucking fantastic that it makes SO MUCH work for me.

And, back into PC mode, the Doctor as the Doctor (not as a girl) makes me smile. I like her. I liked 10, too, so, no surprise. *Her talking about the antimatter drive was a highlight. CERN as an iphone, "It's beautiful."

There is yet to be an episode this season that didn't entertain me.
We haven't had a "wood-lice-house" episode like the previous season. We haven't had any Clara-type shit. We haven't had "Love and Monsters." We haven't had that Agatha Christie episode. I mean, the Spiders episode was ridiculous, but no more so than a ream of previous that I did go ahead and watch (omg, the pig things in Daleks in Manhattan).

So I wonder...
Do people view these episodes with more severe criticism because it's a Girl Doctor,
Or because it's not Moffatt?

And maybe I'm so generally content with these, and am not regretting watching, and am entertained, because I have neither of those problems.

From what I have seen of Chibnall, he does good with a slow build of an ensemble cast, which is why I think none of the companions are going away and that they will continue to get better and deeper.

And literally, every episode, I like the companions more (okay, except maybe Yaz, who is Pleasant Bland but still better than Clara).

But.

Anyway. That's my thoughts.

I would be careful with assessments that end with the idea that people might be more severely critical because The Doctor is a GIRL. That can no more be determined in comparison with one's own opinion than the opposite; others being less critical because she's a girl and they don't want to seem unfair. It can very well be "well we let them get away with that because they are a minority" but non-minority would be given the same leeway. 

Changing the dynamic with a girl Doctor does change everything and while references to male pregnancy may have struck a balance in an episode with a male Doctor being all male-like, that balance can be tilted too much in one direction.

We have seen a lot of this before... farting aliens and Adipose, etc.. I had hopes though that the show and The Doctor had gotten past that... grown to a lot more depth, especially with things like the horrible CGI creature. If that is "because its not Moffatt" then so be it. Maybe it's not though... maybe it's just I thought the show had grown beyond a Chibnall and now feels like we've regressed back to a certain level of silliness that some do not care for. I for one am sure that Jody Whitaker could carry the depth of deeper stories, but I wonder if the current writers feel the same as I do.

.... and tee-hee snicker snicker wink wink in the ultimate male prank; let's give her a vibrator for a sonic.

It is funny because I knew from moment one that criticisms of the show were they to come
about would be attributed to "having a problem" with The Doctor being a girl. Those that enjoy the show
more than I because they don't have that problem.

S11E6 - Demons of the Punjab.

Not a bad episode, all in all. Nothing technically wrong with it...aside from the fact that it was utterly and completely boring.

Copying from my post on a FB thread:

I just watched.

The other week with the Rosa Parks episode, I'd made a snarky comment about how Dr. Who loves going into the nastiness in American history, but I don't see them making episodes about India, bloody hypocrites.

AND THEN THIS HAPPENED.

I stand so totally corrected.
(And really, I'd drawn that parallel, and really, I didn't know this was going to happen)

This was the first of the season to make me cry. I've seen the criticisms of this season's eps, sometimes agreed and sometimes disagreed, but this ep was just top-notch by any standards. It had all of the things that make a great Who episode. The supporting cast was great. I got drawn into the characters. A classic flip-the-script on who is the villain/monster. Finally fleshing out Yaz a little, after her being so completely overshadowed by the awesome charisma and development of Ryan. And it pulled at my heart and it made me think.

I've been remarking that Chibnall seems to be re-treading or re-inventing RTD rather than Moffatt, following a track very like S1 of the reboot, and when this ep started I thought "here's our Father's Day" but I like how it went farther.

Embarrassingly, as a historian (former and future-- still don't quite know how I'm currently teaching math), my knowledge of the partition of India is SO sparse and academic, as this ep drove home to me. I know of it, but I don't know ABOUT it, as it's just one thing on a list in my mind of ALL that shit that was going on in the late 40's. I left this ep feeling a bit shamed of myself for not reading more on this major, current-world-shaping event.
And then the episode drives that home with the aliens. And, in my personal take on the ep, how they demonstrate the flaws in our historiography. They are witnesses, of those who die alone and forgotten and unmourned. Should that not be the purview of historians?
When we select what will be taught, what will be learned, what will be remembered-- we are responsible for the gaps that allow events to be forgotten-- unmourned.

And it's our responsibility to, instead, be witnesses.

At least, that's one take-away that hit me hard with this episode.

To be honest, I haven't really been feeling this season. I don't think it's because the doctor is a girl though. I am actually really digging Jodi's portrayal of the doctor. If anything, I think I feel the opposite of what Vonne was expressing. This season has been very heavy handed in explicitly pointing out the fact that she is a girl. Chibnall clearly wants to ride the PC train all the way to the station. And in general, I don't mind that (I am a huge Max Barry fan after all). But does it have to be SO obvious?

I've decided, Jodi can stay but Chibnall has to go.