Reverie

If Sarah Shahi kicks ass in it like she did in POI I'll have watch it.

I was wondering if anyone else had their eye on this. Looking forward to tonight's pilot episode.

Thanks for making this thread. Loved Shahi in POI. Possibly the best character on the show. Never heard of Reverie til now but it sounds intriguing. I'll give the pilot a look.

After two episodes, I have to admit, I'm liking it.

Shahi immediately draws you in as the lead character, Mara Kint. It's like her empathy with her "patients" reaches out and makes the viewer just as much a part of the dream as she is. I don't want to get hooked on another series but this one might just do that.

Anyone else catch any episodes yet?

I've seen them Sandi. I'm enjoying it but it's going to get old fast simply because of its episodic nature. Hopefully a good story arc will develop. Have seen only meager evidence of that so far but it's still early.

I know what you mean Big John.  It could easily just be the dream of the week rescue which would become old very fast.  

There are several things I see that the show is using in an attempt avoid that.

• Mara is experiencing "visions" after exiting the dream.  
  
• The cold genius and her relationship with her dead twin brother/computer
  
• The two person dream application and the possible government involvement with the program.  
  
• The fact that the cold genius and her right hand man are withholding information about the program and some of its effects.
  

So, we'll cross our fingers on this one.

Yeah, the teasers are definitely there like they are in most shows of this nature nowadays and they'll probably flesh out at some point somewhere down the line. Still though, not the same as having a real story arc.

Imagine if Westworld teased us throughout season one that there is something amiss with the hosts but the show was more about the guest's adventures in the park. In that case, I'd rather just watch reruns of Fantasy Island.

Reverie has the potential to be more than just Fantasy Island of the mind. Let's Total Recall this show sooner rather than later is all I'm saying.

I agree. Funny you mention Total Recall. I liken this show to a mash-up of Total Recall, The Matrix and Dreamscape. I'm thinking the next couple of episodes will tell the tale.

Is it possible that she's the one who's in a dream and everything we're being shown is part of her own fantasy?

Well, while I don't think so -- anything is possible -- especially in the beginning.

Whoa...

Big John wrote:

Is it possible that she's the one who's in a dream and everything we're being shown is part of her own fantasy?

Big John wrote:

Whoa...

I must admit when Mara's trip to her sister and niece's apartment started to disintegrate, I had visions of it turning out to be Mara in a hospital bed, comatose and everything we had seen so far -- her fantasy. (And it could still turn out that way.) But it looks like she's having a problem with reality, which we suspected may happen.

What did you think about the assistant's library room of doors?

I'm thinking from his reluctance to share more door openings that each one of those doors leads to something he's afraid of and hasn't dealt with yet.

That room of doors could be interesting but not in relation to the assistant.

Have you been tracking in dream time versus real time? I was thinking about a possible application for this tech could be job training for any given skill set. How much time and energy could be saved by learning something in a fraction of the time it would take in the real world.

I don't know what to make of Mara's world falling apart. Excellent episode though. Sunk its hooks into me.

Big John wrote:

Have you been tracking in dream time versus real time?

No, I haven't.  It looks like you have and are saying less time is spent in the dreams then is actually passing in real time.  What's the ratio?

Big John wrote:

That room of doors could be interesting but not in relation to the assistant

In relation to who then?  (I thought the assistant, Paul, (yes, I had to look it up - lol) said that the program created it for Paul based on what he needed?

I haven't been tracking it but since dreams only last a moment, is the time she spends inside someone else's dream only a couple seconds? I mean, if she has to go in and rescue people because they have been in the application for so long, how many lifetimes could they be living in there?

My least favorite episode yet. The new character and twist he brings is interesting. However, he was so clumsily introduced that the resolution of events from the previous ep was very anti-climactic.

The derealization effect is extraordinarily interesting. I'd love to see how it manifests, slowly driving Mara into madness,

Finally caught up.

Big John wrote:

The new character and twist he brings is interesting.

Oliver Hill, right?

I do believe that he was probably mentally compromised before entering 2.0, but I also think there's probably some truth to his version.  

We saw Mara beginning to experience derealization and she, unlike Oliver, didn't appear to have any mental instability (other than the deep-seated remorse and guilt over her family's death).  Not being able to distinguish virtual reality from physical reality would drive anyone into insanity, IMO.  Isn't that a definition of insanity anyway?

Oliver also stated the pills don't help.  We've seen evidence of that with Mara as well.

I thought this week's episode was a real tear-jerker.  I don't usually watch those.

The best part of this episode was the ending when Mara visits Ray, her brother-in-law and the guy that killed her sister and niece -- then botched the job of killing himself.

I wonder how often she visits him and quietly stares at him -- filled with hate?

We met Mara's love interest from back at that time -- Chris, the psychiatrist.  I don't believe for a moment that Mara would just shut him out without a reason.  What better time to lean on someone you love than at a time when you lose your sister and niece to violence like that.  Since Ray appeared crazy, I'm wondering if Chris was his psychiatrist and just like in this episode, maybe had some relevant information he wouldn't divulge because of the doctor/patient privacy issue -- information that may have saved Mara's sister and niece.  I bet that's what happened.

The preview for next week caught my eye.  Mara. in a one in a million chance, encounters someone unexpected during a trip inside -- and she gets shot -- and when she comes out -- she's still shot -- bleeding even!  I think that's interesting -- definitely.

Another boring episode centered on a character we'll never see again.

Reverie is building too slowly for me. If the next ep is similar in formula to this one, I may opt out.

Big John wrote:

Another boring episode centered on a character we'll never see again.

Reverie is building too slowly for me. If the next ep is similar in formula to this one, I may opt out.

I hear you.   I am interested in Mara being shot inside Reverie and still remaining shot in real life.  That may liven things up.

Let me know if you opt out, so I don't talk to myself.

Agreed on her being shot. Actually, that leads me to wonder if Reverie could be used as an anesthetic of sorts. Like, if someone is going into surgery, give them Reverie instead of... whatever they use nowadays.

As far as Mara being shot in the show goes, if it moves the larger story forward in a big way, I'm all for it. I have a feeling though that it's just in there for dramatic purposes. My guess is that we'll gain a little bit more info about Reverie that could come into play later on, but otherwise it'll be just another Fantasy Island overdose ep.

Then the following ep Mara will rehab the injury, if it really does manifest in the here and now, and the ep after that she'll be  pretty much just fine.

Don't wanna waste time wading through all that though. I want more derealization and black ops shit!  

Big John wrote:

As far as Mara being shot in the show goes, if it moves the larger story forward in a big way, I'm all for it. I have a feeling though that it's just in there for dramatic purposes. My guess is that we'll gain a little bit more info about Reverie that could come into play later on, but otherwise it'll be just another Fantasy Island overdose ep.

It should move the story forward in a big way, but I'm upset that Mara being shot in the virtual world transferred over to Mara wounded and bleeding in the real world AND TPTB shrug it off.  It's HUGE!  But it's not being treated as such.  Maybe if it was, they wouldn't be able to keep doing it?

Big John wrote:

I want more derealization and black ops shit!

derealization -- The previews show just that.

I'm still on the fence on this one.  Let's see what the next episode brings.  What did you think?

Excellent episode! This should tide me over for a couple weeks. I mean, I'd be outright giddy if they focused entirely on the government conspiracy stuff but I know they won't.

Another boring episode, until the awesome final scene.

Big John wrote:

Another boring episode, until the awesome final scene.

Yes. I wonder what Oliver is up to? Any ideas?

Also, I wonder if the meeting Oliver had with that guy even took place. How do we know what is real or not? We've been presented with some of Mara's scenes as if they are reality only to find out later, they're not.

I hope she lets Charlie and Paul know whats going on. But she probably won't. I think Mara should really talk in depth to Oliver. He's the only other person we know of who has the same problem.

Yeah, the meeting with Oliver scene at the bar was definitely made to make us think it was a havid (I love being able to use that word again). The character Oliver met with was fully compliant and had nothing additional to say, as well as being motionless while silent. I wonder what Oliver thinks he's planning though.

Crazy how Mara lived out her fantasy in the real world. I did not recognize the guy that the fake boyfriend turned into before he disappeared.

If only we didn't have to sit through the episodic junk to get to the good stuff. I'd like to believe that each ep's individual story will somehow manifest itself later on, but I doubt it.

havid -- lol

Quote :

I did not recognize the guy that the fake boyfriend turned into before he disappeared.

That's her crazy brother-in-law who killed her sister and niece. He's in a coma in the hospital.

Oh man. Now I need to go back and watch that scene again.

sandi wrote:

Big John wrote:

Another boring episode, until the awesome final scene.

Yes.  I wonder what Oliver is up to?  Any ideas?

No, but I'm gonna watch the scenes he's in again and look for key indicators.

I don't quite know what Oliver is up to but we know these things:

* He has an issue with the company
* He entered Reverie and then collapsed in the middle of a restaurant
* He is paying someone $19k for to do something while he is in Reverie
* He knows and is angry about the military involvement

Not sure what his capabilities are when he is inside Reverie. Will he be able to access other people's Reveries? Is the guy he hired an engineer/coder with the company who is going to somehow assist him?

Something that's been bothering me about the entire premise of the show. Seems they've built many safeguards into Reverie, except for arguably the biggest one of all - a way to manually bring someone out of it. Why in the world would they release that sort of technology to the public without such an essential component? Instead they hire a former police negotiator to do the job. Seems unrealistic to me, so it's hard for me to buy in.

Quote :

Something that's been bothering me about the entire premise of the show. Seems they've built many safeguards into Reverie, except for arguably the biggest one of all - a way to manually bring someone out of it.

I think there was a rush to market in an effort to recover investments in the project. Their initial tests probably didn't have instances where people opted to stay and not exit or there was a "negligible" risk on that end. But once mass marketed, found that wasn't the case.

We see the same thing with the virtual world and the real world blurring. We know Mara is experiencing the virtual world as reality -- the same as Oliver did. But they ignored that as well. Why release a program like that to the public?

Right, but that vr side effect, I can't remember what it's called right now, wouldn't have been an initial consideration. However, bringing someone out of it, especially knowing that time is distorted in Reverie, should have and would have been considered from the outset one would think. Just sayin'.

Still interested, just bugs me.

So now it seems that the derealization effect is caused by repressed memories, desires, and such. Meh. However, that being the case, I wonder what Oliver has been going through.

Speaking of Oliver, I hadn't taken him for a cold blooded murderer. On so many levels, this was poor story direction imho.

Reverie needs to focus more on the company's opposition to the government's use of Reverie. It's really the only thing left that interests me in the show.

Big John wrote:

So now it seems that the derealization effect is caused by repressed memories, desires, and such. Meh. However, that being the case, I wonder what Oliver has been going through.

Meh?  I think the resolution of Mara's derealization is some of the poorest writing I've ever had the misfortune to witness.  

So, once Charlie plays the recording and reveals the truth of Mara's sister/niece hostage situation, Mara goes out and gets drunk.  Later, she's about to pass out on her sofa and calls out to them but they don't appear.  The next day, Mara declares the derealization problem is solved because she tried to see them and didn't.  What a load of crap!

And let's talk about that recording -- Mara coerced her brother-in-law to commit suicide.  I wonder what she could be convicted of -- 2nd degree murder?

Wikipedia wrote:

Second-degree murder: any intentional murder without premeditation, but with malice aforethought. wiki link

She certainly intended for him to die and she had to maliciously think it through in order to choose the right words which would end in him pulling the trigger to kill himself.  She even looked "greedy" for him to die.  (I thought this was totally out of character for her -- even under the emotional stress of the moment.  Typically a person would strike out physically under the circumstances -- even if there was no chance of causing any harm.  It's just a natural reaction.  But not Mara.  She was able to contain her anger and emotion, was able to coherently figure out a desired course of action and implement it -- all within seconds of her sister and niece dying.)  Again, I thought it was poor writing and a quick way to resolve the problem behind her derealization.  

I'm very tempted to stop watching but I will give it another episode or two -- I was most disappointed.  It also doesn't account for the real world bruising as a result of being shot in the virtual world and I have a feeling that will be left hanging.

Oliver -- just when I was almost totally sold on his being a good guy and unfairly kicked out of his own company which his genius help create.  He ups and kills the guard that stole the drive for him.  What was he thinking?  Ignoring the fact that he murdered the guy in cold-blood, the whole way the theft went down pointed to the guard (and only the guard) being a traitor and working with Oliver.  If Oliver thought he was covering his tracks, he is so wrong.  All he did was eliminate the guard (who can be tracked back to him) and thus cast himself as the number one murder suspect.  Genius?    

I want better writers.  End of story.

Yep, I agree with everything you said. Totally. I'm just more hopeful. The science is interesting and I sort of enjoy the way every single character seems to bungle every single situation.

The moment Oliver shot the guard I was like, what now asshole? Not only do you have a bloody body to dispose of, which believe me is a lot of work and Oliver doesn't seem up to the challenge, but the guard's last steps trace right back to you. Idiot.

The derealization was the most interesting thing the show had going for it. If this is how it ultimately resolves, yes, very disappointing. The second most interesting thing is the government's use of Reverie. If they bungle that aspect too, I'll disappear into my own Reverie. Apertus!

Well, I didn't realize this week's episode was the season finale or possibly the series finale if the show isn't renewed.  (tvline.com rates its renewal chances as could go either way.)  If it is renewed, I'll watch the first couple of episodes to see if the writing has improved; if it isn't renewed -- well -- c'est la vie.

Mara Kint's deus ex machina.  Lucky Ducky visits with Ray in reverie.  During the course of their conversation, Mara admits she coerced Ray into shooting himself.  Ray lets her off the hook by assuring her that he would have killed himself anyway.     Later, sweet Mara returns to reverie with Ray and gives him a picture of his wife and daughter in happier times.  This allows Ray to die a happy man.  It also provides Mara with redemption for coercing Ray into killing himself -- not really but that is what we are supposed to come away with.  

We get to visit with all of Alexis' baggage -- her brother's death, her guilt over it and the resulting family dynamic with just Alexis and her parents.  Don't get me wrong, I was curious as to what happened, but I've never warmed up to cold-fish Alexis, so I just never really cared about her backstory.  But, the magician pulls out another deus ex machina card for Alexis.  She gets to lay her guilt to rest and move on with her happy life by maturing her AI Dylan.  Yes, he's all grown up.

Genius Oliver fails again.  How can someone so smart fall so short on success?  Oliver successfully acquires Alexis' key allowing him unlimited access to reverie and all its components; successfully kidnaps Alexis and keeps her hidden while holding her prisoner in reverie; infiltrates the company and locks everyone out of the computer room; successfully sets up the fire accelerant; successfully ignites the accelerant.  Epic fail -- the continuous trail of accelerant only ignites in a neat little contained area around Oliver. *cough*

Oliver escapes into reverie -- I'm guessing he can walk along the beach and feel no pain during his recovery period.  

And miracle of all miracles, Charlie and Mara emerge from a ringside view of Oliver's fiery ordeal, unscathed.  Yes, unscathed!  Only steps away and yet -- not a hair out of place -- no sweat -- no coughing from fumes or smoke.  The only thing missing is "Marvel" in the title.

At the end, Paul discovers that Mara still appears to be in Reverie and we get a picture of a very haggard looking Mara making an X (on top of numerous X's) on one of the doors in the hallway.  Maybe that's Karma -- maybe this is Reverie giving Mara's soul the punishment she knows in her heart she deserves for coercing Ray into killing himself -- murder in the second degree.  

Can you tell how disappointed I am with this series?  It has a good concept, solid cast, decent special effects but seriously flawed writing.  It could be so good yet it isn't.  

Having said all of that -- there is one thing that could go a long way convincing me that this series still has merit.  And that is ...

Everything, and I mean everything, from the time Mara discovers Alexis and helps her escape Reverie until the time Paul informs Mara the system still shows she's in Reverie -- is all a Mara derealization episode.  That would be a hell of a thing, wouldn't it?

I don't think I'll be watching it next season. The finale was dumb and the story lines went nowhere.

Yes about it being a hell of a thing if it had been a derealization. If anything had been a derealization it would have been a hell of a thing. That was the best part of the show and while I'm glad they fleshed it out prominently, I hate what they did with it.

Again, another show that would benefit from a little bit of Pennywise.