Wartys Dr. Who First Watch

Warthawg1 wrote:

I think there are parallels with the Dr and Morpheus in how they have some troubles relating to the humans they are dealing with. I can see that lack of complete understanding coming into play as Dr. Who progresses.

Oh yes.

So today I left my house at 5:30, went to work, taught all day, then had to stay for four more hours for parent teacher conferences, got home at 8:45 pm, I'm fuckin exhausted, or I would watch an episode.

But, I'll watch some tomorrow.

I’m quick scanning what I’ve previously watched and then I will look at
the next eppy.

I want to figure out this ”thing” I might have not noticed.

I just downloaded a sample of Sandman, vol 1 into Kindle to see what the rave is about. I have no idea what I'm getting into and I don't know if Kindle is the best platform to view a graphic novel.  We'll see, I guess.

vonnegut wrote:

So, what do you think about the Dalek falling on the Ascension Islands?

Now we know what the Smoke Monster really was.

MrBill60 wrote:

I just downloaded a sample of Sandman, vol 1 into Kindle to see what the rave is about. I have no idea what I'm getting into and I don't know if Kindle is the best platform to view a graphic novel.  We'll see, I guess.

Personally, I can't imagine not having a printed graphic novel in my hand when attacking Sandman.

I got so much out of the careful examination of every pane... the shape of the lettering, the coloring, the pane
framing. I can't imagine it being as easy to pick up on those things on kindle, but maybe that's just me.

I joked with an acquaintance who is also into Sandman that I read the words, analyzed the detail of every panel,
and then stared at the entire page as if it was a Magic Eye 3D painting, lol

Unfortunately the free sample has only the intro and a couple of panes- not enough to get a feel.  I may take your advice and go with the print version. It's only a couple bucks more than the kindle version so it's not much of a dent if I decide this isn't for me.

I would think it's definitely worth a few extra bucks to have the printed versions. Sandman is practically a tactile experience already.

I have my subscription to Prime and will start my Dr. Who re-watch this weekend.

MrBill60 wrote:

I have my subscription to Prime and will start my Dr. Who re-watch this weekend.

Yay!

Warty, any watching last night / this night?

I will try and watch a new eppy later tonight...

I spent sometime last night and a bit ago scanning back over
what I had already watched...

and I got it..

References to a bad wolf.

Warthawg1 wrote:

I will try and watch a new eppy later tonight...

I spent sometime last night and a bit ago scanning back over
what I had already watched...

and I got it..

References to a bad wolf.

LOL, yep.

A "Bad Wolf situation" in episode 2.
The seer in episode 3 sees the darkness and the big bad wolf.
"Bad Wolf descending" at Van Statton's base.
"Bad Wolf" graffiti on the TARDIS.

A very bad wolf indeed.

Rose is definitely my favorite companion.  She has such a great smile.

I don’t know what it means yet, but I caught it when I saw it on the TARDIS

Warthawg1 wrote:

I don’t know what it means yet, but I caught it when I saw it on the TARDIS

:) :) :)

My first time through, I don't remember noticing the line in Ep2, but in Ep3 I remember thinking the seer saying that she saw the darkness, and the big bad wolf, and I was like "Whoa, wtf does THAT mean?" and it made me more aware of the references in the subsequent episodes.

You will see.

Just looked it up, because you can't without spoiling yourself.

Specifically, at this point it's been:

(copy/pasting)

Ep2: "The Moxx of Balhoon says to the Face of Boe: “Indubitably, this is the Bad Wolf scenario. I find the relative laxity of the ongoing multiverse…”"

Ep3: "Gwyneth reads Rose’s thoughts: “And you, you’ve flown so far, further than anyone! The things you’ve seen. The darkness. The Big Bad Wolf…”"

Ep4: "A boy paints the words “Bad Wolf” on the side of the TARDIS."

Ep6: "The voice of the helicopter pilot says: “Attention all personnel. Bad Wolf One descending. Bad Wolf One descending.”"

The flyovers and cityscapes of London are fanstastic. I haven't been their since the '70's but we'll hopefully have a chance to visit next summer.  
I love Rose's smile, her roll-with-it attitude and adventurous spirit. She's the Doctor's moral compass and she actively contributes. There's a very
nice rapport between the two.  I really enjoy the family dynamics, the humor, and the absurdity for the most part.  

Ep 2
The End of the World station could have used a restaurant, or at least a diner for the viewing.  ;-) 
The evolution of trees and human plastic surgery, hmm.  I particularly liked "The Face of Boe". 
He's very iconic looking as if he were the model for the Easter Island statues.

Ep 3
I wondered if there were wardrobe instructions in the Tardis?  Those multi-layered Victorian-era dresses weren't easy to get in to.
I was a little worried about how far Rose could push it with the maid, but since she was psychic, she was less shocked than most
people would be in that period.  I enjoyed the maid's perception of the future, flying metal birds with people inside.
I also enjoyed the nice but sad reference to Dicken's unfinished novel.

Eps 4&5
Even the Doctor miscalculates, 12 minutes becomes 12 months. The teaser and setup were really well done, I really felt for Rose's mom.   
I don't mind a fart joke now and then, I still crack up to this day over the campfire scene in Blazing Saddles. I guess I haven't outgrown it, lol.
Harriet Jones- never just Harriet, always "Harriet Jones,  MP of Flydale North".  What an ideal politician and not afraid to get her hands dirty.
I like Mickey and Jackie's relationship, even more so than Micky and Rose's. Jackie first suspected him in Rose's disappearance and then he 
becomes her support and confidante in their link to the Doctor.  It's sad seeing Micky sitting there in the alley waiting for the Tardis to show up.  
Poor guy, how can he possibly compete with Doctor for Rose's attention?

I haven't re-watched "Dalek" yet, but my first impressions of the Daleks were of re-purposed janitorial service bots who grew tired of unclogging
toilets and exterminating rats and cockroaches.

vonnegut wrote:

 
I suppose I may as well come out now and admit that Daleks are my absolute favorite of all Doctor Who villains.  They beat Cybermen by a country mile.  I think part of it is the absurdity of "homicidal pepper pot."  They look so goofy, while being so fucking inimical.  Plus, everything is cooler when you say it in a Dalek-voice.  

I'll probably watch Dalek this evening,  they are kind of cool and looking forward to revisiting the interactions with the Doctor.  

My favorite villains are the 

future episode:

Bill, I like your favorites ALL the time. I rarely scream at the TV during Doctor Who, but those things...

In the episode I watched last night, there was a glimpse of a TV screen with
the caption “Bad Wolf TV” in the upper left hand corner.

Warthawg1 wrote:

In the episode I watched last night, there was a glimpse of a TV screen with
the caption “Bad Wolf TV” in the upper left hand corner.

:)

Face of Boe on the big Bad Wolf TV:

I got halfway through that episode (7, "The Long Game") last night, then got bored with it. There's a reason, apparently, where I never feel inclined to rewatch it.

Definitely going to rewatch 8, though.

Episode 8 is one of my favorites.

I had forgotten that they took on a new passenger in Ep 6.

Yes the face of boe!!!

vonnegut wrote:

I got halfway through that episode (7, "The Long Game") last night, then got bored with it.  There's a reason, apparently, where I never feel inclined to rewatch it.

Definitely going to rewatch 8, though.

I agree, 7 was forgettable.  Luckily the hop-on only lasted one episode.     
Getting a tat is one thing, but a hole in the head? Adam's motivation was totally
unrelatable and stupid.  I also didn't understand "The Editor's" motivation,  what was 
he getting out of the deal with the Alien-with-the-terrible-CGI?   

I did enjoy seeing Simon Pegg and Freema Agyeman in one of her earlier roles and 
chuckled a bit at  the finger snapping punchline.  So long Adam, you won't be missed.

Yes, we all know that a controlled media stunts the growth of culture, you don't have to 
hit us over the head with it.

I just rewatched 8, 9 and 10.  Oh man..!   I'll wait until Warthawg chimes in.

I’ve been a bit busy.

I just got my dad out of the hospital when my 2nd to last uncle was hit with a
major stroke. 

All the time with the hospital stuff, kids soccer starting, right in the middle of me
replacing all the flooring in my home... I’ll get to the next eppy as soon as I can!

oh no I am so sorry, hope everything works out

Warthawg1 wrote:

I’ve been a bit busy.

I just got my dad out of the hospital when my 2nd to last uncle was hit with a
major stroke. 

All the time with the hospital stuff, kids soccer starting, right in the middle of me
replacing all the flooring in my home... I’ll get to the next eppy as soon as I can!

TCB, darlin.

Everything will work out the way the universe intends it to work out, I’m just the only one physically
able to handle some things. My bro suffered a back injury and is on permanent disability. My parents
are both in their 80’s. My uncle is in his mid 70’s and has no other family.. and we found out he’s been 
living as a severe hoarder. You need a hazmat outfit to go into his place, so he isn’t going back there
unless we pay to have something done, or I go do it.

Then there’s my own projects..

Then there’s kids and all they entail, and I am the primary kid caretaker as I have the most flexibility
in my schedule.

Anyway... I’m not complaining. It is what it is.. I’ve just been a bit tired at night. I tried to watch ep 7
2 nights ago but I dozed off. I’ll try and get something in tonight!

I just ate an entire chocolate bar.

That should help.

LOL.

I don't blame you for falling asleep during ep 7, honestly.

Eh..It was about me more than the episode.

I just finished up the last 10 minutes I missed. It wasn’t that bad.

I mean the concept of the big money in the world partnering up to control the
population by manipulating the information/news.. that is all a very relatable 
concept. 

Seeing again the Doctor getting serious.. this time when confronting Adam over 
his attempts at personal gain.. kicking him off. Talking about Rose being the best
the best.. makes you think their hooking up wasn’t as random as first thought.

Anyway.. onto 8. I’ll Probably be up half the night because I usually don’t eat chocolate.

Ok... I can see why Ep8 was the hook for many.

The show for me finally made that jump from campy fun to something to be
taken a bit more seriously (that will probably still offer some campy fun)

The traditional tropes of time travel were all brought out; paradoxes, et al.. but
what really grabbed me was the emotion.

The love of the father and daughter.. What the Doctor did trying to keep Rose from
having to go through it again. That has some major implications.. his willingness to
actually allow time to be altered but still fix it somehow. 

So much was packed in here... little Mickey/Rickey.. Rose imprinting on him. 
The story of ole’ dads death being changed.
Now Rose’s willingness to believe and follow the Doctor in the future-past
all takes on a different tone. Tone isn’t the right word, but I think you know to
what refer.
The significance of the wedding and the people involved.. It may have just been
a play on the significance of the necessity for the timeline to remain unchanged,
but I got the impression there might be more to come there... but if not it still works
on the previously mentioned level.

Bad Wolf again on the poster.. thank goodness for 60 inches of UHD TV.

The looks on the face of baby Rose.. amazing.

Plus we’ve got some more things here to analyze.. Rose changed the timeline,
but in the end everything that was supposed to happen still happened. So can we
change what happened? Can we? I’m smelling some Sandman here. I think if
Rose went back a 3rd time and changed things again.. the same original end
may still come about because fate will not be denied.. or will it? I can only imagine
the topic will come up again.

This is by far the most sound episode, and it was solid on so many levels.

This is the episode that hooked me.  I also loved the emotion.  Some really fine acting and writing.

I found it interesting that the older the structures were the harder it was for the reapers to destroy.   I also liked the Doctor's comment that if rampant meddling in time were possible wouldn't he have gone back and saved his own people?   

I loved the exchanges between Jackie and her husband regarding his womanizing, including the "young woman"  he brought to the wedding. Fond memories of the departed vs actual experience. I liked that the father subtly picked up on what was going on early.

This episode gave me a new appreciation of The Doctor, his view of humanity, his compassion and what is important to him, those human experiences.  Nicely done

I didn't go full Whovian until episodes 9/10.

Most of episode 8 I was just screaming "ROSE YOU FUCKIN IDIOT DON'T TOUCH THE DAMN BABY"

Will comment more once kids are in bed.

10 minutes into episode 8.

Every single time, I devalue this episode in my head, then I watch it again and it always surprises me that it's really good.

I think this is the first time we see the Doctor REALLY pissed off at a companion. It's not

11th:

But he is NOT happy.

"I did it again, I picked up another stupid ape."
Why is he so mad?
I don't think it's just that she's completely screwing up timelines and creating paradoxes. It's like he says, "I said Travel in space with me, and you said No. Then I said Time Machine." He feels used.
Particularly after how supportive/caring he was at the beginning of the episode. When she brings it up, and expresses doubt that it's possible for her to go there, he says "No, I can do anything, I'm just worried about you."
And how unconsciously they hold each other's hand when waiting for the car to hit Pete.
That he's willing to take her back AGAIN, knowing how dangerous it is, just because he wants her to be happy.

After all that, of course he's feeling like, after everything he's offered her, she was just using him for her own agenda. It stings.
And then when he asks for the key back and she retorts that he's not going anywhere, "You're too sad. You'll wait."

Savage, Rose.

18 minutes in.

Pete says "If I was dating you--"

And Rose's "I know what you're saying, and we're not going there. At no point are we going anywhere near there. You aren't even aware that there exists. I don't even want to think about there, and believe me, neither do you. There for you is like, like the Bermuda Triangle. "

LMFAOOOOO

(Fun point: The phones start saying "Watson, come here, I need you." First thing said over a telephone. Good times)

I love how this episode plays with the widow-psychology... all of Pete's flaws diminished, all of his good traits magnified.  While in real life, they are constantly bitching at each other, which is so much more in line with Jackie's character.

Rose's face when the Doctor comes running up, though <3

And here's who the Doctor is:

DOCTOR: How did all this get started?
STUART: Outside the Beatbox Club, two in the morning.
SARAH: Street corner. I'd lost my purse, didn't have money for a taxi.
STUART: I took her home.
DOCTOR: Then what? Asked her for a date?
SARAH: Wrote his number on the back of my hand.
STUART: Never got rid of her since. My dad said.
SARAH: I don't know what this is all about, and I know we're not important.
DOCTOR: Who said you're not important? I've travelled to all sorts of places, done things you couldn't even imagine, but you two. Street corner, two in the morning, getting a taxi home. I've never had a life like that. Yes. I'll try and save you.

Rose and Baby Mickey:

"... I didn't recognize him in a suit. You have to let go of me, sweetheart. ... I'm always saying that."

There's also some more fun Timelord backstory. The Doctor said in a rage to Rose, "My entire planet died, my whole family, you think it never occurred to me to go back and stop it?"
And later, about the paradox infection creatures: "There used to be laws stopping this kind of thing from happening. My people would have stopped this. But they're all gone." A bit of what the Timelords were all about.

Warthawg1 wrote:

Ok... I can see why Ep8 was the hook for many.

The show for me finally made that jump from campy fun to something to be
taken a bit more seriously (that will probably still offer some campy fun)

Even now, after the show went Semi-Serious many seasons ago, there is still some campy fun.  But, early S1 is so many rough patches, finding its footing, etc.  It's finally, here, starting to find out what it's really about.  More of that in the next two episodes.

Quote :

The traditional tropes of time travel were all brought out; paradoxes, et al.. but
what really grabbed me was the emotion.

The emotion, themes, and developed characters are why people are such rabid fans of this show, despite the occasional campiness and occasional absurdity.  The writing gets even better, especially (I expect to be crucified for this, justifiably) once Moffat fully takes over the show in Season 5.  
You'll get your first Moffat-written episodes next (ep 9 and 10).
The guy who wrote this episode, Paul Cornell, only wrote one other Doctor Who story, a double episode in S3 that is frequently on fans' Top Ten Episodes lists.  
This is definitely a mood-setter.  It's not all just travelling to the death of the Earth and hobnobbing with weird aliens.

Quote :

So much was packed in here... little Mickey/Rickey.. Rose imprinting on him. 
The story of ole’ dads death being changed.
Now Rose’s willingness to believe and follow the Doctor in the future-past
all takes on a different tone. Tone isn’t the right word, but I think you know to
what refer.

One of my favorite exchanges is him still being pissed off at her in the church, and he says "Tell me you're sorry."  And she does.  And he grins, and they hug.  
It definitely took this for her to really trust that he DOES know what he's doing, lol, and it's probably best to listen.
Not to say that in certain ethical dilemmas, he couldn't use a bit of advice.

Quote :

The significance of the wedding and the people involved.. It may have just been
a play on the significance of the necessity for the timeline to remain unchanged,
but I got the impression there might be more to come there... but if not it still works
on the previously mentioned level.

Some are one-offs, in a way that works.  But we aren't done with the people in Rose's life.  

Quote :

Bad Wolf again on the poster.. thank goodness for 60 inches of UHD TV.

Who's afraid?

Quote :

The looks on the face of baby Rose.. amazing.

Would have been more amazing if Rose could just NOT TOUCH THE DAMN BABY.  It still cracks me up.  This is classic of example of when I want to strangle Rose because her damn hard-headedness.

She's still one of my favorites.

Quote :

Plus we’ve got some more things here to analyze.. Rose changed the timeline,
but in the end everything that was supposed to happen still happened. So can we
change what happened? Can we? I’m smelling some Sandman here. I think if
Rose went back a 3rd time and changed things again.. the same original end
may still come about because fate will not be denied.. or will it? I can only imagine
the topic will come up again.

You can't make 10 seasons about time travel without these things coming up again, in greater detail, with more exploration.

The 10th Doctor, at the end of his run, goes into this kind of thing HEAVILY and I think you'll really like it.  

Either way, you're right to smell some Sandman.  What is destiny, what is free will, what must happen, how much agency individuals have...
This is a sweet episode because, despite not being able to change the fixed point of Pete's death, there was still a moment of grace, of Rose being able to be with him as he died.  THAT much, she could change.  
Not everything is so sweet.

Holy shit I'm getting excited about rewatching this.  I've only done a PROPER rewatch once, with my best friend Jamie (deadpoet on the old forum).  Doing it makes me revisit episodes like this, that I would generally not bother to rewatch on my own, and rediscover beauty.

This is, I believe, the first episode (of embarassingly many) that made me cry a little.  Rose constructing a fantasy narrative where her dad took her on picnics and read her stories.  "You were always there for me."  Jesus.  
Despite its critics, this show will always work for me because the characters and the emotions are genuine.  Even back in S1 when the special effects (omg the paradox-bacteria creatures) are SO BAD.  

A large part of that, early on, is Christopher Eccleston.  A lot of people say to skip him and go right to the 10th Doctor, who is hugely more popular and has better writing/less shaky episodes to deal with.  
But, no one should ever skip 9.  Eccleston's ability to pull genuine emotion even in absurd situations is just amazing.  And he and Rose are perfect together.
Even if "We're not a couple.  Why does everyone keep thinking we're a couple?"

Touching the baby...

At the end of the movie Time Bandits..



You knew it was going to happen the moment he said it.

LMAO.

Are you doing Ep 9 and 10 tonight?

I'll stay up if so.

(it's a double, two-part episode, which is why I lump them)

vonnegut wrote:

A large part of that, early on, is Christopher Eccleston.  A lot of people say to skip him and go right to the 10th Doctor, who is hugely more popular and has better writing/less shaky episodes to deal with.  
But, no one should ever skip 9.  Eccleston's ability to pull genuine emotion even in absurd situations is just amazing.  And he and Rose are perfect together.
Even if "We're not a couple.  Why does everyone keep thinking we're a couple?"

I've seen 7 seasons and Eccleston is still my favorite.  Although I like the 10th and 11th doctors a lot,  I can't really imagine them pulling off the climax in Ep10.  The 10th and 11th doctors are a lot of fun to watch, but they almost have an adolescent quality and don't project the same level of confidence and maturity.   I'll have to re-watch these seasons again, but those were my first impressions.

vonnegut wrote:

LMAO.

Are you doing Ep 9 and 10 tonight?

I'll stay up if so.

Sorry I didn't see the post..

No, I want to watch them back to back and I couldn't stay up for that last night. I had to catch up
on some other projects. I have my hand in a lot of different pies right now.

Btw, eps 9&10 won the Hugo Award for that year and deservedly so, imo.

The TARDIS glowing translucently in the church... what a great religious image.

Warthawg1 wrote:

vonnegut wrote:

LMAO.

Are you doing Ep 9 and 10 tonight?

I'll stay up if so.

Sorry I didn't see the post..

No, I want to watch them back to back and I couldn't stay up for that last night. I had to catch up
on some other projects. I have my hand in a lot of different pies right now.

Definitely wait until you can watch them back-to-back.