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 Wartys Dr. Who First Watch

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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 11, 2018 12:11 am

NEVER MIND US.


Oh my fucking god, Donna. Oh god, Donna. Oh Doctor/Donna.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 11, 2018 12:16 am

What happened just then, last night I watched Voyage of the Damned but then also just carried on and watched Partners in Crime AND Pompeii.

Jason was watching with, which is fun.

So, all a sudden, knowing that Warty was watching Pompeii, and he said he would start around 11:30, I opened the ep and skipped to about where he would be.

And got Donna saying "Never mind us."

The fucking GUTS on this woman. The fucking EMPATHY on this woman. She's thrown instantly into "sometimes hard choices gotta be made" and she makes them, with NO concern for herself.

Because, as the Doctor said when they met, she isn't special, she isn't powerful, she isn't connected, she isn't clever, she isn't important.
And she knows that. And she feels that all the time. Her wretched fucking mom helps. She knows that she is worthless.

But she cares SO MUCH. "Never mind us." She's already, on ep 2 as Companion, ready to sacrifice herself to save people she's never met.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 11, 2018 12:20 am

Donna is great. Truly great.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 11, 2018 12:22 am

So I paused to type that post, and then went back and five seconds later, Doctor / Donna are pushing the lever together.

And they have a look. A look passes between them.

This is why we need Donna. She will never want to fuck the Doctor. You ain't mating with me, Sunshine. But they can be friends. They can understand each other. What they have is so much deeper than romance, it's UNDERSTANDING.

And she has the guts to be with him and make the hard choices.

But she also has the empathy to MAKE HIM BETTER. In all of the destruction he's seen, in all of the death that he can't stop, there's Donna. Fixed point, Schmixed point. SAVE SOMEONE. Just someone. Anyone. DO SOMETHING.

She makes him stop.

Oh, Donna.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 11, 2018 12:27 am

NOT THE WHOLE TOWN

JUST SAVE SOMEONE
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 11, 2018 12:28 am

And, then, the Sound of Hope.

"Come with me."
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 11, 2018 12:29 am

Seriously, S4? 10th Doctor IN HIS PRIME.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 11, 2018 12:48 am

And what happens to Donna...

Everything about her and 10 rips me open and sews me back together to rip me open again.

Not remotely important.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 11, 2018 11:01 am

(was trying to post this last night but my internet went out)

All of that is true. You wonder where was the opportunity for Donna to be her best self before the Dr came along. With her grandfather? Perhaps. But there is almost the expectation of her in solely human society to be this party happy or selfishly angry vacuous self with some occasional humanity that needs a situation to come forth: something as simple as a friend needing help or a stranger being mistreated. Her life before the Dr. is almost a strange mystery because there was so much Donna wearing the social mask of Donna. When she's with the Dr though, and on a universe wide stage where feelings and reactions and decisions and actions have more importance and reverberation, she is a whole new person---or?---is she just freest to be her best person? Does she require someone with the "greatness" of the Dr and the situations he to be honest often bungles into to respond with equal "human greatness". Heroism is often opportunity. Being one's best, in real terms, is part of the daily struggle.

On another note, I sometimes wonder who the companions of the Dr's many adventures really is. I wonder if the Dr himself isn't also the companion's companion. That he almost doesn't exist without someone at least to show off to. And these humanoids. Why them? They're him without the trappings. They can remind him that he is not only on and of the Tardis but on Earth as well, or on Other Planets as well. They bring him closer to life. So I think he's their companion on a part of his journey that he can't manage very well, because, well, he's the Dr and technology or blustery talk is sometimes not the answer. The Dr. would forget that, were he not also a companion.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 11, 2018 2:45 pm

I like Donna's growth and that she was basically forced to open up to new experiences. I think the Doctor learned a lot from her also, including patience.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 11, 2018 11:33 pm

The Fires of Pompeii


"You think of difficult questions, don't you"... me thinks Donna will.

Didn't really care for her initial sassiness. It's nothing to do with being a headstrong woman... it's more of "you're traveling across ages in a blue box with a Time Lord.. you might want to defer a bit to the rules he lays out." I'm sure this has it's rewards, but in the beginning here I want to bitch slap her.

I keep expecting the daughter to say "what's in your wallet"

lol @ "positions" as they run to keep the valuables from falling. A little nod there to Mary Poppins.

Gary Busey showed up and started wisdom drops and bigotry. Gonna love this guy... I just know it. Chief Augur here or whatever his name in has to be great at parties.

"Doctor, you bring bad luck upon this house". Yeah.. you're not the first to say or think that... if you only knew.

"Every waking second I can see what is, what was, what could be, what must not. It's the burden of a Time Lord... "

Destiny of the Endless

Classic time travel paradox... he goes back, he thinks he is changing history but his actions were what they were and will be what they will be.

So he chooses what he must and Megatron Pyrovillain all go ape****.
Donna... it's not fair. You finally got it right. It's never been fair. 
It never will be fair... but "just this once". That gets magnified as the series has continued.


There was some Noble action here, by both... he wasn't willing to sacrifice the world.
 
So I think back to the beginning of this eppy when the Doctor said "that fire had nothing to do with me... well, a little bit".. nice bit of foreshadowing  the destiny trap. Donna had also said "everyone here is dead" at the beginning.


One last thing... I watch everything most of the time, and I'm pretty sure it was Peter Capaldi credited as being the marble merchant. I know enough to know that he's the Doctor down the road. It would be cool if all the doctors of the future had been slipped into the stories of the previous Doctors somewhere. 


Anyway... the beginning of this episode was a bit hectic, but it came around. The end however had a lot of what I like in my Whoworld... it got serious, with some solid character connection, some serious depth, and a little explanation as to the issue of what the Doctor can and can not do. Will do, or will not.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 11, 2018 11:45 pm

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

There was one major line by the Augur... you might want to think on it.

I also love the type of "I caused it" time play in this episode.

But really it's Donna's compassion prompting the Doctor to rediscover his. Just save SOMEONE. Someone unimportant. Because that's not nothing. That matters.

And yes, Capaldi, 12, plays a bit part in this (dad of the saved family).
This will be addressed, eventually, in 12's storyline.

Karen Gillan, a future companion, also has a bit part as one of the girl prophets.

<3 Destiny of the Endless <3
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 11, 2018 11:51 pm

I know Gary Busey utterred the line "you have nowhere to run, doctor..."

I sort of checked out during his "farts may blow in any direction with the winds" babbling
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 11, 2018 11:54 pm

Oh and "Doctor, she is returning"

I caught that.. and those oracles say the truth
yay

That most certainly didn't
go unnoticed
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sat May 12, 2018 12:34 am

It's another line.

It's okay.

It will come to you, when it's time.

Just mentioning because upon my first-watch, *I* was like, whoa, that's a weird thing to say, what does THAT mean?
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sat May 12, 2018 12:52 am

Well the only other weird thing I can think of was when he said "there is something on
your back"
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sat May 12, 2018 1:42 am

:)

Ah, yes. That thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sat May 12, 2018 10:06 pm

Ood?
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sat May 12, 2018 10:22 pm

If the wife doesn't have other plans... It'll happen in a little while.

With the "there's something on your back" comment, I went in thinking about
a comment where I would catch some hidden meaning. The fact that there was no
meaning that I know of is what threw me.

I imagine it will mean something later.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sun May 13, 2018 12:39 am

Well that was a quick look into the abhorrent part of human nature.

and yes, I'm talking about the wife.


No, no... Planet of the Ood

Well I get what the episode is doing, but I really hate that this takes place in the year 4126. While I know we have a long way to go, I also believe we have come a long way and to be looking at slavery in 4126 is disappointing. I would prefer to have a more positive view of
our progress.

Donna's compassion was amazing, and Tate did a great job here. One thing to notice is that most of the time we see human companions changed by their encounters, but so far I think
she has done more changing of them than they have her. She is in many ways going into this as a more finished product than previous companions. Rose was strong, but young. Martha was flawed... trying to
find her own value while needing the love of the Doctor. Donna 
is not perfect, but she is self assured without attaching herself to a
man. She is sure in her own perception of morality.

The addressing of the hideous nature of man and the horror of slavery
were done well, but I do struggle with seeing that as an issue in 4126.
Even now in 2018, there is enough awareness that I don't see what was
happening with the Ood being found acceptable on such a wide and open
level. Now you could say that the Oods apparent willingness to serve is
what made it okay in so many people's eyes, but then would humans really be turning a blind eye? 

Regardless... a solid episode.... best part being Donna Noble. The freeing
of the Ood was emotional, and their song was beautiful.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 14, 2018 12:23 am

@Warthawg1 wrote:
Well that was a quick look into the abhorrent part of human nature.

and yes, I'm talking about the wife.


No, no... Planet of the Ood

Well I get what the episode is doing, but I really hate that this takes place in the year 4126. While I know we have a long way to go, I also believe we have come a long way and to be looking at slavery in 4126 is disappointing. I would prefer to have a more positive view of
our progress.

In 3000 years, you assume progress?

How optimistic of you :)

I suppose progress is no HUMAN slaves.

But there is still the Other, and you can do whatever you please to the Other, because the Other isn't you.

We've had way more than 3000 years on our own planet, and we STILL, for the most part, are able to seeing HUMANS as "Other."

You think that if we can't, in that timeframe, actually see our own species as one tribe, then we'd magically see other species as our own tribe in a similar span of years?

To me, that is the beauty of that final reveal about the "hair tonic." In true Who fashion, the plausibility is soooo fucking low 55 but the point is made, and the point is taken.

You have become what you scorned as "Other," what you saw as "less than." Now it's you.

And what does Ood Sigma say, about this human who has enslaved and slaughtered his people, and now become an Ood? "We will take care of him." No vengeance.
Who is your higher form of life now?

Quote :


Donna's compassion was amazing, and Tate did a great job here. One thing to notice is that most of the time we see human companions changed by their encounters, but so far I think
she has done more changing of them than they have her. She is in many ways going into this as a more finished product than previous companions. Rose was strong, but young. Martha was flawed... trying to
find her own value while needing the love of the Doctor. Donna 
is not perfect, but she is self assured without attaching herself to a
man. She is sure in her own perception of morality.

So many dings and I can't give spoilers, ahhhhhhhh.

The Ood and the Doctor/Donna.

But yes, Donna isn't looking for the Doctor to complete her in some way.
He's incidental.... she's looking for the UNIVERSE to complete her in some way.
He's just her path to all of the things that she's always been missing, all of the things out there. But she does bring HERSELF to it, and in doing so, changes him.
And he really, really needs someone who doesn't worship him.
She has a lot to teach him. Despite being "not connected, not powerful, not clever, not important" 55 Sad 55

Quote :


The addressing of the hideous nature of man and the horror of slavery
were done well, but I do struggle with seeing that as an issue in 4126.
Even now in 2018, there is enough awareness that I don't see what was
happening with the Ood being found acceptable on such a wide and open
level. Now you could say that the Oods apparent willingness to serve is
what made it okay in so many people's eyes, but then would humans really be turning a blind eye? 

See above... human nature, not my tribe, not my problem.

Quote :


Regardless... a solid episode.... best part being Donna Noble. The freeing
of the Ood was emotional, and their song was beautiful.

<3 Ood are the fucking BEST <3 Spoiler, we aren't done with them.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 14, 2018 12:39 am

Up next is a mediocre two-parter. Nothing to write home to mom about, but not terrible. Important later, though.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 14, 2018 6:13 pm

Yes... I do expect progress. We've come much further in the last 200 years than we did in the
previous 2000. I don't hate humankind, and yes I would expect a quickening of the progress
we make as a species to continue. I would especially expect it after many, many years of contact with
many different alien races.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 14, 2018 6:22 pm

okay, so maybe I hate humankind a little bit...

but I still expect some progress here
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 14, 2018 6:35 pm

:) <3
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 14, 2018 10:51 pm

The Sontaran Stratagem and The Poison Sky

Mediocre two-parter maybe, but I actually enjoyed these. Maybe not on the same emotional
level as The girl in the fireplace, but this was interesting...

My random thoughts:

Speaking of progress as we were; In this two parter, the bastard. child of Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg wants to have General Shrek drop him and his geniuses off on Castor 36.

We now have Martha back and we see her experiences with the Doctor resulted in her working for "The Unit". Rose is working for Torchwood in an alternate universe. This shows how much the time with the Doctor changed them... It took them to a place they never would've gone. Now what will be interesting is seeing what becomes of Donna after her time. Based on my earlier feelings about how she is so different than the others, it wouldn't surprise me if she just went back to being Donna.

Speaking of Martha... Doctor knew right away something was off about her. I've mentioned it before but is is very interesting how he can be so perceptive sometimes and totally oblivious others. I don't think it was eye dilation or smell.. he looked at her funny the moment he brought up calling to warn her family.

Lord I love Wilfred Mott.. I seriously do. Another stellar supporting character. I want more of him.

I also loved the humans fighting back. The Somme, The Battle of Britain, British Gallantry kicks ass.

I'll totally ignore the physics behind igniting the atmosphere, the results of superheated gas expansion, and the resulting shock wave that would have destroyed the planet, because I'm giving like that.

The Doctor was willing to sacrifice himself because at this point, he just don't give a damn anymore. He's tired of innocent death. 

Then again though... humans are such a sorry species that 2000 years from now they are still engaging in slavery... makes you wonder why we are worth saving, but apparently we are.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Mon May 14, 2018 11:07 pm

@Warthawg1 wrote:
Now what will be interesting is seeing what becomes of Donna after her time.

I.... *walks away for a bit*
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue May 15, 2018 12:28 am

I need to rewatch that two-parter, but will warn (in the meantime) that I really hate the next episode, then the one after that just sucks.

But then every other episode this season is amazing. so there's that.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue May 15, 2018 12:28 am

heart2 read cantseeit thinking heart2
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue May 15, 2018 1:00 am

omg fucking STOP, dude, you're going to make me cry
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Tue May 15, 2018 7:20 am

It's Donna. Of course you're going to cry. Just let it happen.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed May 16, 2018 12:02 am

The Doctor's daughter

There was a brief moment of learning about the Doctor's family that was okay, but this
episode was sort of cheap and contrived. Emotion was forced when none was really due. 
The musical score was over the top and way more than was called for, and this installment
just tried too hard and fell way flat. 

I don't have much more to say about it.

Regarding this season... 

It really needs to step up. It was really hyped but to be honest it hasn't lived up
to that hype yet.

Planet of the Ood was good... Wilfred Mott has been a great character, but I am feeling
a bit underwhelmed here.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed May 16, 2018 12:06 am

This last episode didn't even make sense to me.

The war has been going on for generations... which is only 7 days?

Huh?

Honestly... that was one of the worst. I can even say some of the campy
silly stuff was better as this actually took itself seriously.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed May 16, 2018 12:16 am

I DID warn you that one was terrible.

The next one is also bad. Honestly you COULD skip it and no one would blame you.
I think you won't, but you could.

However, after that, you're good to go. I actually haven't overhyped this season. You'll see.

I have a SERIOUS soft spot for Pompeii, and I'll always love Ood, and FUCK YES WILFRED MOTT and you have only begun to know him, who has been waiting for us all this time.

Anyway. You've watched the fucking worst episode of the season, which has so many plot holes and canon-breaking discontinuities I can't even.
The next one sucks just because it's a stupid ep in a great season.

But then you're going to the Library.

And despite all of the debates of the "best episodes," I don't think you will find any top 5 list of anybody who watches this show that doesn't put the Library/Forest in their top 5.

And then there's Midnight.

And then there's Turn Left.

And then there's Stolen Earth / Journey's End.

That run of six episodes may be the finest in the entirety of Doctor Who. Put that with Pompeii and Ood, and no, S4 isn't overhyped.

S4 is the apotheosis of Davies, just as S5 is the apotheosis of Moffatt.
Overblown drama, convoluted plot lines, with so much raw character development and emotion and epic scope that it's hard to handle.

I *do* also count the four specials that come after as part of S4.

You're ramping up to the climax of the Davies years. Get through the next stupid episode, and it's all a sweet rise from here. Starting with Library.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed May 16, 2018 12:23 am

Just keep in mind how not special Donna Noble is (but there's something on her back). And all the bees are leaving. And how did the Pyrovilles just lose their planet? Oh, but the Adipose lost theirs, too.
And what was up with Rose in the season premiere?

(oh, and btw, Library/Forest is a Moffatt-written two-parter)
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed May 16, 2018 12:24 am

@vonnegut wrote:
I need to rewatch that two-parter, but will warn (in the meantime) that I really hate the next episode, then the one after that just sucks.

But then every other episode this season is amazing.  so there's that.

Quoting bc I warned you.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed May 16, 2018 1:25 am

Pompeii was "good"... Ood was solid, but none have grabbed me as being truly special. Now the season
may go on some orgasmic run of eximious supernacular awesomeness, but I can only comment on
what I've seen so far. 

Now I trust your judgement and you've certainly double downed on what is to follow, so i look
forward to it.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed May 16, 2018 9:16 pm

The Unicorn and the Wasp.... yeah....

no...


That was sort of pointless and not what I wan't out of my Doctor
Who. I found it about as interesting as the Clue movie which was
pretty terrible. There was no advancing of the character 
relationships at all, so I just can't find any value here. The story
itself was just silly, and I have no idea why the unicorn was even
a part of the story to the point of being in the title. The whole story
could have been told without even having the "unicorn".

Bleh... a waste of 50 minutes.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed May 16, 2018 9:21 pm

Told you.

But now we're done with all that.

It's time to come to the Library.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed May 16, 2018 10:42 pm

The Wasp as I said is a guilty pleasure for me. But as a contiguous episode it's largely filler.

As for the Dr's Doctor, also a filler, it does remind me though of an echo of the concept of Timelord extinction.

The Library though. The Library! It's splendid. read
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Wed May 16, 2018 11:16 pm

We had a little fun with The Wasp and the Unicorn.  My wife must have read every single Agatha Christie book and she pointed out every time a title came up in the dialogue.  There must have been about about a dozen titles referenced in that ep.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu May 17, 2018 12:10 am

Watched Library/Forests tonight due to unbearable excitement.

Going to type my write-up now, and save it to post once Warty watches.
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Warthawg1

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu May 17, 2018 10:05 am

Not being a fan of Agatha Christie..

no... I don't think I would ever rewatch that.

Many years ago I would occasionally come across Doctor Who, and watch 10 minutes of it here and
there. This is the exact sort of episode that made me think I wouldn't like to start watching it
regularly.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Thu May 17, 2018 9:46 pm

Library tonight?
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 18, 2018 12:31 am

Oh yes.. so very yes


There was a depth with The Empty Child and The Doctor Dances that I've been waiting for to come back, and I think it just did.

I knew she said his name. That was the one thing that would convince him, and that is really big. I remember from another of my favorites (a little story of a girl in a fireplace) that his name is more than just a name.

So who is River Song... it was said they squabbled like an old married couple, so
is that their future? She would have to be someone special to know his name but as the Doctor travels from the past to the future, his own existence is always in the
now (well most of the time). I will have to wait until they cross paths again... who knows... she may be a future companion..
or "companion" in a truer sense. It's definitely a bit more though as not too many companions can send him a message on his psychic paper with a kiss attached.

...but the Doctor she called isn't this Doctor

There was much to love here. This is why I watch Doctor Who. Donna's part of the story was so touching, from her first interaction with Evangelista to the very end with her dream husband. Interesting that her perfect man was gorgeous, adored her, and could barely speak... the very thing that prevented him from calling out to her at the end. So touching and so sad. 
Then the look the Doctor gave her when the subject of what becomes of Donna Noble came up.

Mentioning Evangelista though... she mistook an escape pod for a bathroom...twice. LULZ 
When she mentioned the "nice lady", you could see the crew thinking back on their treatment of her before she was shadow eaten. Be nice to people.

Dr. Moon and the moon that was the doctor of the computer... nice.

Parallels here of Sandman... his library.. "The Dreaming"... that will always make me smile. "Every book ever written".

Speaking of books... spoilers! She uttered "you mustn't tell!" and The Doctor can't look at her diary. I agree... no spoilers.

Some other things... the Vashta Nerada can clean a chicken bone or human body in the blink of an eye.... the weeping angles can move oh so very fast in the blink of an eye. 

One thing Doctor Who is doing is scaring the dark right out of me.

Some great foreshadowing... 4022 "saved". When they first arrived, The Doctor noted they must be in "the biographies" section. Oh how they were.
Donna said you.. always a death at the end. Well.. not always, Donna.

I'll end with this:

Everyone knows that everyone dies. And nobody knows it like the doctor. But I do think that all the skies in all the worlds might just turn dark, if he ever accepts it.

Some days are special. Some days are so, so blessed. Some days, nobody dies at all.

Now and then, every once in a very long while, every day in a million days, when the wind stands fair and the doctor comes to call...
... everybody lives.


Sweet dreams, everyone.
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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 18, 2018 1:23 am



This was actually a terrifying double episode. Part of the success of the terror and everything else was that the double episode was well crafted and had consequence. It's one of my favorites.

Donna Noble has left the library. Donna Noble has been saved.
read :|

I'm also very fond of Anita who drew in a lot of sympathy.
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TBC

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 18, 2018 1:57 am

Who is River Song? Who indeed? No spoilers...
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 18, 2018 9:28 am

What I typed up when I watched it the other day...

Silence in the Library.

Another Moffat-penned episode.  Not his absolute best, that will always be “Heaven Sent” from S9, but it’s VERY much the quintessential Moffat.  All of his elements come together here in a perfect storm.

Moffat stuff-- recurring lines and themes that are almost robotic in their trope-ness but nevertheless work because of their inherent emotional power, a brilliance for creating innovative monsters, resurrection, long-game plotting, a deft touch for engaging step-by-step story-telling, bringing the best out of characters, and a serious inability to have a sad ending.  
All of these things make him a fantastic writer of episodes, and some of them make him (at times) a shitty show-runner.  But, enough of that-- spoilers.

I will say, I never really, really loved the Doctor until the Moffat-written “Empty Child / Doctor Dances” when I truly understood 9 through Moffat’s writing.  And I think this is the absolute peak of 10, when he fully becomes himself-- again through Moffat’s writing.  If you weren’t over the loss of Eccleston before, this point is like “Eccleston who?”  Moffat puts 10 in his element and he has never been more himself.

But on to the episode.  I love the creepy ass opening with Doctor Moon.  The actor who does Doctor Moon is fantastic.  “And then you remembered.”  

Donna is being very Donna, you told me we were going to the beach, what are we doing in this library?  But the Doctor’s passion for books has to hit a chord with any bibliophile :)

Quote :
NODE: Additional. There follows a brief message from the Head Librarian for your urgent attention. It has been edited for tone and content by a Felman Lux Automated Decency Filter. Message follows. Run. For God's sake, run. No way is safe. The library has sealed itself, we can't. Oh, they're here. Argh. Slarg. Snick. Message ends. Please switch off your mobile comm. units for the comfort of other readers.
DOCTOR: So that's why we're here. Any other messages, same date stamp?
NODE: One additional message. This message carries a Felman Lux coherency warning of five zero eleven
DOCTOR: Yeah, yeah, fine, fine, fine. Just play it.
NODE: Message follows. Count the shadows. For God's sake, remember, if you want to live, count the shadows. Message ends.

Excellent ominous Moffat stuff here, lmao.  The dead flat voice of the node delivering a “for god’s sake, run” message.  Are we scared yet?

Quote :

DONNA: So, We weren't just in the neighbourhood.
DOCTOR: Yeah, I kind of, sort of lied a bit. I got a message on the psychic paper.
(It reads - The library come as soon as you can. x)
DOCTOR: What do you think? Cry for help?
DONNA: Cry for help with a kiss?

Rule one, the Doctor lies.
And a cry for help with a kiss <3 River.

Donna busts down the door to get them to safety while the Doctor is still trying to resonate the molecules.  She’s not as gutsy as Rose, no one is as gutsy as Rose, but she has her high points, lol.  

We begin the “wait, who IS this little girl” mystery with the security camera yelling “stop it no no stop it” to the intrusion of the sonic screwdriver.
One beautiful thing about this episode, is that the twists aren’t really shockers.  Every mystery, rather than being crafted for shock value, is crafted as a journey.  You are SUPPOSED to figure it out before the “reveal,” in incremental stages.  This is, imo, more difficult than a “shocker” twist, because it must be spun out to precision, and it deliberately engages the audience step by step.  Echoes of “Heaven Sent” episode here-- when Moffat is good, he’s very good, and particularly at this tricky kind of story-telling where he guides us through our own discoveries and theories and intuitions.  Before the reveal, we know that CAL is the little girl is the computer, but it steals nothing from the reveal because our minds have been so active putting the pieces together.  

Quote :
DOCTOR: Oh, I'm thick! Look at me, I'm old and thick. Head's too full of stuff. I need a bigger head.

<3 Just one of the moments where I love 10 <3

Quote :
RIVER: Hello, sweetie.
DOCTOR: Get out.
That exchange rips out my heart, because I know who River is, and OMG for him to respond to her like that.
But when it comes to River, we are experiencing her like the Doctor is experiencing her in this episode.  She just waltzes in all smug and familiar, acting like she’s automatically the Doctor’s perfect counterpart, and we’re like “who this bitch think she is?”
Because we haven’t met her yet.  We’re seeing her for the first time.  
But of course Alex Kingston as River does such an epic job of conveying the slow realization that the Doctor she knows so intimately and trusts so completely has no fucking clue who she is.  Being a time-traveller is hard.  

Quote :
DOCTOR: I'm a time traveller. I point and laugh at archaeologists.
At some point in S6 we’re going to revisit this Moffat-written line and freak the fuck out.  Spoilers.

We have a fun secondary team, Anita, Proper Dave and Other Dave.  Particularly the actress playing Anita gives a strong performance in a small role.
Donna, ever the compassionate, sees Evangelista being snubbed and makes an effort to reach out to her.  “The nice woman.”

And then there is the monster.  Shadow-piranhas.  Maybe not quite as cool as the Weeping Angels, but pretty damn cool.  Not every shadow-- but any shadow.
I will say, after watching this, whenever I was in a room with two light sources I was a little uneasy.  TWO SHADOWS.  

AND the introduction of the Tardis-Book, River’s diary of her time with the Doctor.  She starts leafing through it mentioning events that may or may not come up during Moffat’s tenure as show-runner.  Time travel is a bitch.

Evangelista dies and we meet Data Signatures and Ghosting.  A bit weak as a plot device but that’s a Moffat thing.  “We’ll suddenly create this thing and it’s a thing, despite it being implausible and weird, because it has good dramatic effect.”  
Donna’s emotion, though <3 She has so much heart.

Quote :
DOCTOR: Donna! Quiet, I'm working.
DONNA: Sorry.
RIVER: Donna. You're Donna. Donna Noble.
DONNA: Yeah. Why?
RIVER: I do know the Doctor, but in the future. His personal future.
DONNA: So why don't you know me? Where am I in the future?
The look of horrified pity on River’s face, OH MY FUCKING GOD.  When she realizes that she’s talking to Donna Noble.  Goddammit.  



Quote :

DOCTOR: Don't cross his shadow. Thanks. Now, the rest of you, helmets back on and sealed up. We'll need everything we've got.
(The Doctor puts Dave's helmet on him.)
DONNA: But, Doctor, we haven't got any helmets.
DOCTOR: Yeah, but we're safe anyway.
DONNA: How are we safe?
DOCTOR: We're not. That was a clever lie to shut you up.

LMFAO.

Quote :

DOCTOR: So, some time in the future, I just give you my screwdriver.
RIVER: Yeah.
DOCTOR: Why would I do that?
RIVER: I didn't pluck it from your cold dead hands, if that's what you're worried about.
DOCTOR: And I know that because?
RIVER: Listen to me. You've lost your friend. You're angry. I understand. But you need to be less emotional, Doctor, right now.
DOCTOR: Less emotional? I'm not emotional.
RIVER: There are five people in this room still alive. Focus on that. Dear God, you're hard work young.
DOCTOR: Young? Who are you?
LUX: Oh, for heaven's sake! Look at the pair of you. We're all going to die right here, and you're just squabbling like an old married couple.
RIVER: Doctor, one day I'm going to be someone that you trust completely, but I can't wait for you to find that out. So I'm going to prove it to you. And I'm sorry. I'm really very sorry.
(River whispers in the Doctor's ear, and he looks stunned.)
RIVER: Are we good? Doctor, are we good?
DOCTOR: Yeah, we're good.

*chills*
And laughing at “Dear God, you’re hard work young.”

Quote :
RIVER: Just keep it together, okay?
ANITA: Keeping it together. I'm only crying. I'm about to die. It's not an overreaction.
Anita really is a great bit character.

I love Donna’s fake-life and the way time moves like a dream.  

In the meantime, the Doctor naturally tries to reason with a carnivorous swarm and finds a way for it to talk.  He’s so UNBIASED when it comes to life and who is allowed to live.  And he just wants to talk to everything.  To understand it.  To find some way to understand everyone and everything he comes across.  That is, to me, hands down the best thing about his character.

Quote :
RIVER: You know when you see a photograph of someone you know, but it's from years before you knew them. and it's like they're not quite finished. They're not done yet. Well, yes, the Doctor's here. He came when I called, just like he always does. But not my Doctor. Now my Doctor, I've seen whole armies turn and run away. And he'd just swagger off back to his Tardis and open the doors with a snap of his fingers. The Doctor in the Tardis. Next stop, everywhere.
DOCTOR: Spoilers. Nobody can open a Tardis by snapping their fingers. It doesn't work like that.
RIVER: It does for the Doctor.
DOCTOR: I am the Doctor.
RIVER: Yeah. Some day.
OMG SO MUCH CHILLS.  “I’ve seen whole armies turn and run away….next stop everywhere.”

Donna’s children vanishing is one of the more heart-wrenching things I’ve ever seen on this show.  Holy fuck that’s brutal.  “Mommy promises never to close her eyes again.”  They weren’t real, but they were real to her.  They were her children, and she lost them.  

Quote :
ANITA: So you think they're just going to let us go?
DOCTOR: Best offer they're going to get.
ANITA: You're going to make 'em an offer?
DOCTOR: They'd better take it, because right now, I'm finding it very hard to make any kind of offer at all. You know what? I really liked Anita. She was brave, even when she was crying. And she never gave in. And you ate her.
(He clears her visor to reveal a skull.)
DOCTOR: But I'm going to let that pass, just as long as you let them pass.
ANITA: How long have you known?
DOCTOR: I counted the shadows. You only have one now. She's nearly gone. Be kind.
ANITA: These are our forests. We are not kind.
DOCTOR: I'm giving you back your forests, but you are giving me them. You are letting them go.
ANITA: These are our forests. They are our meat.
(Shadows stretch out from Vashta Nerada Anita towards the Doctor.)
DOCTOR: Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I liked. That is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor, and you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up.
(There is a pause, then the shadows withdraw.)
ANITA: You have one day.

PEAK 10.  PEAK 10.  LOOK ME UP.  
9 was never as pleased with himself as 10 is.  9 was still SO stuck in the cycle of self-loathing.  10 has moved past that enough to really gain a kind of arrogance about what he does and who he is.  He didn’t even hesitate or think twice when given the option, in Family of Blood, to give up his identity and have a human life.  He is too cognizant of what he can DO as the Doctor.  


Quote :

DOCTOR: Oh, no, no, no, no. Come on, what are you doing? That's my job.
RIVER: Oh, and I'm not allowed to have a career, I suppose?
DOCTOR: Why am I handcuffed? Why do you even have handcuffs?
RIVER: Spoilers.

LMFAO oh <3 <3 <3 River <3 <3 <3

Quote :
RIVER: Funny thing is, this means you've always known how I was going to die.
Again-- we mirror his experience.  We will always know, from here forward, how River dies.  She dies on the day we met her, and that knowledge we can’t erase or forget.  

Quote :
RIVER: If you die here, it'll mean I've never met you.
DOCTOR: Time can be rewritten.
RIVER: Not those times. Not one line. Don't you dare. It's okay. It's okay. It's not over for you. You'll see me again. You've got all of that to come. You and me, time and space. You watch us run.
I cried a little when I first watched this because it was just that emotional.
On the rewatch?  I sob like a child at this.  You can’t rewrite those times.  Not one line.  Don’t you dare.  
But it’s not over for us.  We have all of River to come.  

But fucking hell.  Oh, River.  

She chooses to die in his place because the alternative, rewriting time so that they were never together, is unacceptable and unbearable.  She could not ever go a lifetime having never met him.  

Quote :
DONNA: Are you all right?
DOCTOR: I'm always all right.
DONNA: Is all right special Time Lord code for really not all right at all?
DOCTOR: Why?
DONNA: Because I'm all right, too.

These few lines are why the Doctor/Donna combo works so much for me.  No romance.  They are FRIENDS.  And that gives a special flavor to their care for each other.  If there were “feelings” mucking shit up, I don’t know if they could exchange the look they exchanged in this moment, of a different kind of love and care for each other, something that is more pure and true than what he has had before.  It isn’t “I kind of want to bang you.”  It’s “I see you as a person and I care for the person you are.”  For both of them.  Her lack of awe-struck infatuation for him allows her to see his weaknesses and his pain more clearly and with more depth.  And he can show his weaknesses and pain to her because they are more equal.  “Just mates.”  

Quote :

DONNA: Your friend, Professor Song. She knew you in the future, but she didn't know me. What happens to me? Because when she heard my name, the way she looked at me.
DOCTOR: Donna, this is her diary. My future. I could look you up. What do you think? Shall we peek at the end?
DONNA: Spoilers, right?
DOCTOR: Right.

Oh, Donna Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad

Fuck.

Spoilers.

And THEN we get to the part where Moffat is fucking irritating.  He can’t let a sad ending be sad.  He has to fix it.  He has to make it so that Everybody Lives.   For me, the “we can magically save River” is the bad aftertaste of this episode, although not everyone will agree.

That aside, though, we have the final moment…

No one can open a Tardis by snapping their fingers.
But the Doctor can.

“I’m the Doctor.”
“Yeah.  Someday.”

He is BECOMING.  What is fantastic about this show, in a nutshell-- the constancy of the character of the Doctor gives the continuity that makes such a wandering and random show possible.  BUT he isn’t static.  He’s a wildly dynamic character, always growing and changing and learning, and becoming.  Moffat gets that.  As old as the Doctor is… he’s still unfinished.  And the outward obvious changes-- when he regens and gets a new face and personality-- is nothing compared to the inward changes that occur as the Doctor is affected by everyone and everything that happens to him.
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davidalan

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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Fri May 18, 2018 12:13 pm

First of all, I'm glad you gave Anita her due. She's my favorite character in the whole episode. She'd make a worthy companion.

The monsters. They are an interesting version of the Weeping Angels. Both sneak up on you. But the Angels you can stop if you can stare long enough and have a time loop as a countering plan. Here the monsters sneak up on individuals but aren't too worried about being known as a entirety. They attack those on the periphery. The Dr is too aware. River Song as well. The crew however? Easy targets.

Donna's alternative story. It's really kind of special. It's Donna in a normal life if normal Donna expelled her superficiality. If she gave for others, but in full time daily life. She's a hybrid of two ideal natures. what she had in herself already. what the experience with the dr created? or are they really just the same thing?

I like River Song here. She confronts this Dr in a way that he often needs to be confronted. I like her loyalty to her people too. Based on the text of this episode: The end of River Song is her beginning? I like it.

And speaking of River Song and her people, I disagree that that the happy ending is a bad ending. One it fits with the theme of this episode's theme of saving people by storing them in an ideal state. For another, the dr saving these people as people in a way that the dr can is something he "learned" from Donna, and for him to do anything else would run contrary to the Dr Donna experience. Finally I would do anything for Anita. She can be saved. She's with her friends.

As for your comments regarding the Dr's unbiased regard towards the preservation of all lifeforms, I disagree not with your opinion of the Dr per se, but with the concept that the Dr is unbiased. By choosing all lifeforms, he invariably chooses evil malevolent ones over the "better" life forms which those evil malevolent ones inevitably and gleefully kill. This part of the Dr's psychology truly borders on ptsd coupled with massive delusion. Basically he is projecting that someone out there should have spared the Timelord Race, and because someone didn't, he is perpetuating the loop of annihilation and grief. I find this component of the Dr's personality interesting, but when he boasts to his comrades that villains who have no compunction in murdering masses of lowly humans for instance should be spared the right of special existence, I just cringe. What is the Dr? The guardian of evolutionary intent? If that's the case, he should quit palling around with humans, because in the Dr's universe, humans are easy targets of the forces of evil.
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PostSubject: Re: Wartys Dr. Who First Watch   Sat May 19, 2018 4:30 pm

So I take it y'all liked these episodes...

I look forward to your comments on Midnight.
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