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Zaphod

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PostSubject: Westworld   Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:16 am

well I am caught up on all 'my' shows, so I decided to binge Westworld. I hear good things, and fondly remember the movie.

BTW, the Terror (AMC) is pretty good, finished it up last night. It starts slow, but get 3 episodes in and it gets good.

I'm still debating on trying Fear the Walking Dead again. I tried the 1st episode and it did NOT grab me. Thoughts?
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Zaphod

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:09 pm

ok, not digging the classic tracks massaged into the soundtrack, taking me right OUT of it
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Pi-O-My

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:33 pm

@Zaphod wrote:
well I am caught up on all 'my' shows, so I decided to binge Westworld. I hear good things, and fondly remember the movie.

BTW, the Terror (AMC) is pretty good, finished it up last night. It starts slow, but get 3 episodes in and it gets good.

I'm still debating on trying Fear the Walking Dead again. I tried the 1st episode and it did NOT grab me. Thoughts?

Sorry for the threadjack here but I don't see one for Terror and don't want to start one on a show I may not watch much further. It's gotten moderately interesting but maybe not enough to stick with it.

Actually, a warning on when they eat that beautiful dog would be helpful, so we can skip that episode. Fast forwarding isn't something I'd usually want to do but given the loving detail the first three episodes spent on wounds, surgeries, etc., I think there may be need for massive FFing. Also, we're owned by Bernese Mountain Dogs, and they're distant cousins to Newfies, so that would make it especially nightmare-inducing. (Cannibalism, no big deal. But dogs -- no!)

FearTWD? It's ok, but I'm biased, being a fan of both Cliff Curtis and Kim Dickens. Colman Domingo, too. I think a fair amount of the dislike it generated was because so many people had good ideas for spin offs of the original TWD and this wasn't one of them. I stopped watching it after Season 2, mostly for lack of time. (I stopped watching the original after the second or third episode of the season in which they introduced Negan and he just yakked on and on. JDM brought the charisma and scariness combo but I kept thinking I'd rather be watching him doing The Comedian again, and the rest of it felt too repetitious.)
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MrBill60

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:26 pm

Ok, I have to take the plunge and sign up for HBO. I loved the first season (bought the blurays).
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MrBill60

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:10 pm

Got a $5 per month special.. I'm all set for tomorrow's premiere.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:44 pm

Whaaat? I'm paying 15 bucks a month.
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MrBill60

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:02 pm

We pay close to $200 per month for cable so I'm happy for any break. The $5 is for a year, then I'm sure it's jacked up to $15 or whatever they charge after that. I'm probably going to cancel after the year's up. The only shows I'm interested in are GOT and Westworld.
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vonnegut

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:34 pm

Yeah I don't have cable. I do my 15 a month to HBO for streaming and 10 a month to Amazon. I trade those for a friend's netflix, and that about covers me.
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MrBill60

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:33 pm

Wow, that was a great premiere. Maeve is so badass, I just love her. Still trying to figure out the timeline and how far ahead the opening sequence is. Must not be too long. Also some more clues on Westworld's geography, what it is and hopefully more clues on where it might be located.
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Big John

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:56 pm

OMG Floki is in season 2!!!

I spent half the episode trying to figure out where I know the actor from. Then it hit me like a war hammer.

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Pi-O-My

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:00 pm

It seems that the military types are “later” than Bernard and Charlotte in the bunker but I’m not sure I’d totally rule out there being more than one Bernard. Then again, I’m the one who said Ford made a roboFord (besides the little boy) in the likelihood that his original self would be killed off. If it helps figuring out the timeline(s), Bernard had a chance to change his clothes, and to get an outfit like that (well-fitting three-piece suit, unlike Charlotte’s cowgirl gear) meant he had the time to go home. Maybe they were hinting at that with the emphasis on Charlotte taking a breather from those boots, which she was sharp enough to steal—from the kid they killed in the barn? Meanwhile, what timeline is the Man In Black wandering around in? And we haven’t seen the chunk of time when Stubbs escaped from the Ghost Nation warriors who appeared to overpower him at the end of Season 1.

Abernathy is an interesting vehicle for the IP Charlotte has to deliver. If he’s still around but she thinks she’s already shipped out the “package” then what failed to ship? I figured at first it had to do with Maeve getting off the train but Charlotte had, for some reason, used Abernathy, and I don’t think he’s had anything to do with Maeve. Abernathy was the one who first whispered that line about “violent delights” which seemed to trigger self-awareness. I’m remembering something about him glitching while he was being used as “the Professor” or “the Senator” or some such in the cannibalism story, and after he was recast as “The Rancher” began glitching there. Maybe that’s related to why Charlotte used him or maybe why he’s intrinsically valuable as what she called (to Bernard) "insurance."

And Bernard has human DNA? At least enough to fool the scary milk-white Drone?
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MrBill60

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:58 pm

I think Bernard is special enough to fool everyone he worked with including security sensors (not sure if they take dna), but maybe retinal scans and stuff like that.  Ford made sure he could pass for human.  But on the other hand, so does Maeve.  As Felix said the only thing differentiating hosts from humans is the chip in the head.  (I wonder what happened to the Felix and Sylvester duo?  Are they still around or were they caught in the gunfire in S1?)

Did we actually see Ford's decaying corpse during the assault team segments?  That would suggest perhaps weeks have passed and that Bernard apparently drowned the remaining hosts in a new sea, lake, ocean?? would suggest the future.    Are we seeing the ending of S2, or will it be resolved sooner?  I hope it's resolved sooner than later, there are other worlds to explore.. Shogun World and four others.  Looking forward to that.

Charlotte and the tech-smuggling stuff doesn't really interest me but Abernathy is probably "patient-zero" as far as the hosts gaining sentience. What ever they did to download data into him to smuggle out of the park probably crossed some wires that put him on the path to self-awareness and assuming the hosts have some kind of network connection, the virus has spread.   Or was it what Ford introduced, since it was his plan all along to free the hosts?  It's so confusing, but I trust that things will be explained and we're not left sitting in a church with a white light.

I believe Westword is an island near China, owned by China, and possibly leased to Delos. I remember that some of the video conferences Theresa had were to Chinese officials and that the Delos assault (rescue) team was interacting with the Chinese Navy in this episode.
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MrBill60

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:20 pm

I re-watched the episode and the time between the "event" and Bernard's flashbacks to directly after the slaughter is apparently two weeks based on a comment that Strand (Head of Delos Ops) made about the radio silence. I would be disappointed if this season only focuses on a two week slice of time.

They showed a closeup of a host's face that was drowned under water. It sure looked like Teddy, but I'm not completely certain.
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The Ricksters

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:45 pm

I recently had  free HBO for 3 days via Sling TV and watched the 1st Season and the first episode of Season 2 .   What a mind screw this show is and I mean that in a good way.  When I get confused about something I have to ask my son or look on the internet.  facepalm  Great show and good casting.  

They showed more penis in Season 1 than I have ever seen on a TV show.  lol2
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The Ricksters

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:01 pm

@Zaphod wrote:
well I am caught up on all 'my' shows, so I decided to binge Westworld. I hear good things, and fondly remember the movie.

BTW, the Terror (AMC) is pretty good, finished it up last night. It starts slow, but get 3 episodes in and it gets good.

I'm still debating on trying Fear the Walking Dead again. I tried the 1st episode and it did NOT grab me. Thoughts?



I have Terror waiting for me in my DVR.  I definitely will watch it now that you say it is pretty good.

IMO - FTWD gets better as it goes.
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Pi-O-My

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Tue May 01, 2018 4:28 pm

So far, so good, with a couple of reservations. In particular, I’m concerned about the show playing a bit fast and Lost for effect. Do hosts (like the desperadoes Dolores & Co. shoot up in Pariah) need repair after being killed, or was that “death” just programming and the repairs were so they’d look fresh for the guests? And the scene with Arnold and Dolores, and Ford’s voice, seemed to be just before the cocktail party for Logan, but since Dolores (unlike Angela) still had a body like Ava in Ex Machina, how could they have considered pimping  her out to the investor?

Despite that, it's all still intriguing and puzzling mostly in a good way. I'm wondering if the bigwigs like (sick) James Delos wanted to use Ford's research to upload themselves into undying artificial bodies, or if they want to be artificial to relaunch and do better a second time around.
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MrBill60

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Tue May 01, 2018 6:02 pm

@Pi-O-My wrote:
So far, so good, with a couple of reservations. In particular, I’m concerned about the show playing a bit fast and Lost for effect. Do hosts (like the desperadoes Dolores & Co. shoot up in Pariah) need repair after being killed, or was that “death” just programming and the repairs were so they’d look fresh for the guests? And the scene with Arnold and Dolores, and Ford’s voice, seemed to be just before the cocktail party for Logan, but since Dolores (unlike Angela) still had a body like Ava in Ex Machina, how could they have considered pimping  her out to the investor?

Despite that, it's all still intriguing and puzzling mostly in a good way. I'm wondering if the bigwigs like (sick) James Delos wanted to use Ford's research to upload themselves into undying artificial bodies, or if they want to be artificial to relaunch and do better a second time around.

I have a lot of questions about the evolution of the Hosts, as well.  Ford used to talk to "Old Bill" who sort of behaved like a Disneyland animatronics dummy with jerky movements.  Maybe he was a prototype who never made it to the park.  We also had a shout out to Yul Brenner's Gunslinger in the original film, I guess he was a prototype as well, although we never saw him in action.  Then we come to the pre-park opening sales pitch with Angela? and a bunch of hosts.   I assume they were all Host 1.0's with the inner robotic skeletons,  and then finally the current 2.0 builds with the 3D printing type construction. I'm surprised that the 1.0's were as evolved as the 2.0's to the point that Logan couldn't tell humans from Hosts.  Maybe there's really no difference in the "look and feel" of the hosts and that the 3D printing is just a cheaper way to build them? I'd like to know a little more about the changes to the Hosts over time.

As far as repairing Hosts, Delores has the "tech guy" who can revive and repair them to a certain point,  I guess not cosmetically but more of a patch up job, as evidenced by the messed up face of  the host that Delores had revived and returned to the desperadoes.   I'm surprised that "tech guy" survived that shootout.

William just can't let go of Delores and we see a lot of the current "man in black" taking shape in the younger version. Now that's an interesting evolution or de-evolution.

I guess Arnold had a hard time letting go of Delores as well, and he's right, she wasn't ready,  as she loops back into her programmed response to the city.
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MrBill60

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Wed May 02, 2018 3:22 pm

It was great seeing Giancarlo Esposito for a few minutes in this episode.. such a wonderfully unique voice.
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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Tue May 08, 2018 5:26 pm

So we get to see a new park world at the beginning of the episode, "The Raj"? which appears to be set in British Colonial India circa 1930's or '40's.  Elegant parties and big game hunting with elephants as the main transportation.   We're also introduced to a new female character.  She definitely prefers humans rather than Hosts for her bed mates,  as evidenced by her test of shooting her perspectives to make sure they're human, lol.  She seems to be an important character and I would venture a guess she's related to one of the big wigs, possibly William or Ford.  She survives a Tiger attack which is probably the same dead tiger that was seen in the first episode.

"Tech guy" from the last episode is no where to be seen in this episode so he probably didn't make it and Delores has no qualms about executing humans. She definitely has a ruthless streak on her way to "dominating the real world".  Teddy is having second thoughts about her ruthlessness which doesn't bode well for his survival.    Delores is reunited with Bernard and Peter Abernathy who are both seriously malfunctioning.  Peter is switching through different roles and briefly recognizes Delores as his daughter then flips to another role and forgets.  She enlists Bernard's help to try to fix him.  Bernard is in bad shape as well but finds that Peter's problem is due to the data dump that Hale performed.  Hale and the security units are able to extract Abernathy from Delores' encampment after a major battle.
 
We also follow Maeve and company who are reunited with Felix and Sylvester and the Dragon Lady in the underground corridors.  Wonder what that bundle is that Sylvester is carrying around?  Lee Sizemore is still with them and is annoying as usual.  I don't understand why he is surprised that Maeve and Hector are off their programmed loops and operating independently from his storylines?  What a bonehead, he's been with Maeve since the "Event" and hasn't notice she and Hector are operating independently?  They eventually make it out of the corridors to the Park and are apparently close to the old homestead where her daughter supposedly is.  On the way, they come across a campfire which is  manned by Samurai, as one Katana-wielding Samurai attacks the group. We also see that the woman from "The Raj" has survived the Tiger attack and made it to shore only to be confronted by Sioux warriors. We'll have to wait until the next episode to see the resolution of these storylines.

I assume there are still multiple timelines being shown and trying to keep them straight is confusing and becoming a chore.
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Big John

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Wed May 09, 2018 8:53 pm

Westworld takes it's share of creative liberties but the production value and story are entertaining enough to compensate for it. Very enjoyable program.

Many programs about the singularity in the last few years. This one and Humans are at the top of the list.
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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Thu May 10, 2018 1:34 pm

I was basing "The Raj" time frame on the Luger that the woman used, I thought they weren't in service until the 30's, but the Luger has been in service since the turn of the century, 1908, so the time frame may be as early as the teens or '20's but I'm not too familiar with jungle-wear, lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Thu May 10, 2018 3:14 pm

The Raj woman seemed so bored, and seemed familiar with how the parks work, so I suspect she wasn’t paying for her  expensive adventure. I wonder if her test for knowing the humanity of a possible paramour was out of scruples or from disdain for a man without free will. In either case, her insistence momentarily overruled the programming of her (presumably human) biology. Also, the bullet test must have been day of the big corporate shindig over in Westworld, since it worked properly, and everything had changed by the next day. I thought it was interesting that the tiger seemed to have gotten the memo, since I assume that normally s/he wouldn’t have actually attacked a guest.

Did we ever see what happened to “Tech guy” after the resurrection scene? Dolores might have had more luck with fixing her broken father if she hadn’t been so quick to ditch him, if that's what happened to him.  Abernathy  was already switching randomly between roles before they stuck him in cold storage but he seems worse now that he’s loaded up with all Charlotte’s data. Poor Teddy’s very conflicted, given that his two prime directives are to protect Dolores and to hunt down Wyatt. He was right there when she identified herself as Wyatt to the fort’s commander, so it’s not altogether surprising that he disobeyed her order to shoot the surviving soldiers. And newly re-armed Armistice is also committed to killing Wyatt, so it should be fun to see how she interacts with the new Dolores.

Resolution to storylines in our next episode – not likely! ;)
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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Thu May 10, 2018 5:55 pm

"Re-armed" Armistice, nice. I wonder if that was what Sylvester and Felix were up to, replacing her arm? Still wonder what Sylvester is carrying around, an arm upgrade? Maybe there's still work to be done.
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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Wed May 16, 2018 4:34 pm

Mr. Bill, it seems to me that Armistice’s arm is already as advanced as its likely to get. I was thinking the wrappings contain some kind of weaponry, but I’m not sure why Sylvester would then be trusted to carry it. Maybe it’s some tool to help them get out of the park once they’ve found Maeve’s daughter. (I can’t remember what they had to do to remove Maeve’s exploding spine device. And I don’t remember any physical work being done on Abernathy when he was being loaded with data, to keep him in one piece.) So it’s still a mystery to me.

I wonder if Ford’s experiments with creating an alterna-Ford have been more successful than Delos Corp’s attempts to resurrect human individuals like James Delos. If not, then “the first one” (or whatever the Lakota woman called their leader – the actual decision-maker, not the one played by Zahn McClarnon), who I strongly suspect will be played by Anthony Hopkins, may only have a few weeks before he reaches his “cognitive plateau.”
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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Thu May 17, 2018 8:26 pm

Ah a family reunion with William/MIB and daughter, Grace - the mystery woman from the Raj.  This should be interesting. It doesn't appear that her mother's death has soured her on the park.  She's apparently well known to the employees and has been a regular for a while. I wonder if in earlier days they had family outings, lol.  So what is she there for, revenge, closure? Apparently William /MIB didn't know that she was at the park - tight family there.  This should be interesting.


Another mystery woman reappears in the form of Elsie, the tech and colleague of Bernard.  Bernard finds her in a cave that he apparently left her in,  chained with a couple weeks supply of granola bars.  I have to say, this reunion was pretty lame and what was the point of keeping her alive?  What happens when the supply runs out or water?   She was none too pleased about it.  I can't imagine that Ford would have spared her, so perhaps Bernard overrode his own programming and kept her alive for the off chance that someone would find her?   The only point to their reunion that I can see is that Bernard was seriously malfunctioning and the cave contains a secret entrance to a secret lab that amazingly had the cortical fluid that Bernard needs to survive.   Any way this was an almost cringeworthy deux ex machina.  The secret lab is important to the plot, but Elsie, not so much.

So we come to the big reveal, that housed in the secret lab is the 149th and final build of James Delos with the failed promise of Life Extension which was William's big selling point to get Delos to invest in the park.  All 149 attempts were failures and resulted in the termination of the host.   We find out in a final visit from William after years of supervising Delos' progress that apparently Jame's personality is not compatible with Host technology, so every attempt at downloading his consciousness into a host body resulted in rejection.  Would a more compatible personality be successful?  Has it been done before?  Is this related in any way to the data gathering and smuggling operation in the lab?

No sign of Delores or Maeve in this episode, it mostly involved James and young William , Bernard, and current MIB. MIB is with his tag-a-long revisiting the old town, El Muerto, where MIB ruthlessly killed tag-a-long's wife to make a point.  This time around, MIB develops a heart and saves her.  Yep, the game is a maze and MIB needs to go back to go forward. Perhaps at the end of the game, MIB / William will actually become human again and then die.
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Big John

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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Thu May 17, 2018 9:08 pm

@MrBill60 wrote:
Would a more compatible personality be successful?

Me! Me!

I'm gonna watch the season premier of Humans tonight, as research on how to act more human.
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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Fri May 18, 2018 2:26 pm

On second though, I don't know if "becoming human" is a worthy goal in Westworld since most of the humans seem deplorable.
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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Mon May 21, 2018 10:18 pm

Not impressed with the recent ep. Weakest one of the series imho.
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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Today at 2:16 am

Wow, we get to visit Shogun world complete with Mt. Fuji in the background.  I wonder how they managed that?  Did they terraform a full scale mountain, is it a giant backdrop, or perhaps false perspective like the Matterhorn in Disneyland?   I wonder how the sushi is in 17th century Japan?

It was good seeing Hiroyuki Sanada from Lost and The Last Samura, he's really got the Katana-wielding thing down. I found it hilarious that Sizemore blueprinted Westworld onto Shogun World with basically the same characters and story arcs. Heck, you try writing 300 stories in two weeks,lol.   I found Shogun World interesting but think it would appeal to a very specific client, mostly Japanese who know how to use a bow or a sword. If you're not Samurai, you're dirt.

Sylvester to Felix .."Can't you talk to them?"
- "I'm from Hong Kong asshole!".
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PostSubject: Re: Westworld   Today at 4:51 pm

Hey, Mr. Bill, the "tech guy" is still around! I guess diagnosing Abernathy was beyond his skills. Or Dolores trusted Bernard to work on her father but not a Delos staff person, maybe. It's interesting that Charlotte didn't delete his Donne and Shakespeare spouting from "The Professor" or his memories about "blue tongue" from "The Rancher."

The episode mostly felt sluggish for me with all the redundant Dolores stuff. Was she feeling nostalgic or was she testing Teddy’s emotional levels? Maybe she’s glitching between roles herself, Dolores at times and then over to Wyatt. I wonder if she’s thinking that reprogramming Teddy will wipe out her own Dolores tendencies.

Sizemore’s info-dumping is more tolerable than it otherwise would be just because he’s such a dolt that he’s entertaining. I wonder if he was the mind behind Akane’s un-Japanese dance or if she was off script. (I think her freeform performance would have tipped off the Shogun something wasn’t right. Then again, he did have a leaky ear so he’s not up to par.)

Now that we know that all the hosts have multi-lingual capabilities, I wonder if they also all have Maeve’s newly discovered ability to control other hosts and just don’t know it, yet. Or maybe Maeve is tuned in to the “host mesh network” in a way the others can’t be because of Sylvester and Felix increasing her ability levels (back when the cat duo removed the explosive from her spine, something that seems to have been forgotten regarding Abernathy.) IIRC, Bernard needed a “hard” connection to access the network (when he and Charlotte needed to locate Abernathy), which Maeve doesn’t need. I wonder if her “voice” is related to the interior voices of the Bicameral Mind.




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