Wartys Dr. Who First Watch

Let's Kill Hitler was a stupid fucking episode. It felt extra stupid because they made the mistake of airing a stupid fucking episode right after the brilliance of Colonel Runaway and the ganger baby.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but the second half of this season isnt spectacular. Though there are 1 or 2 great episodes yet to come, but IIRC correctly they are great as standalones, not as part of the overarching story of the season. I felt like this season had the weakest ending of any season in the entire reboot. But at least you still have The Girl Who Waited to look forward to. I think I only have a top 5 episode list before and it might not have made the list. It's definitely on my top 10 though. I think you'll dig it too.

Bitch at the rest of us for spoiling?

Let's Kill Hitler was back to making The Doctor an action hero, Bruce Willis with a blue box and an adult toy...only maybe this time it was Steve McQueen because there were Nazis and a motorcycle.

From here out there are only five episodes left in Series Six, but three of them are weak at best. The Dirl Who Waited is a Top Ten in in the book of any Whovian with any sense whatever and the finale, The Wedding of River Song is good even if it misses a few beats...it has some great moments and lines in it...Awesome Pond moments.

Nessess wrote:

Let's Kill Hitler was a stupid fucking episode.  It felt extra stupid because they made the mistake of airing a stupid fucking episode right after the brilliance of Colonel Runaway and the ganger baby.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but the second half of this season isnt spectacular.  Though there are 1 or 2 great episodes yet to come, but IIRC correctly they are great as standalones, not as part of the overarching story of the season.  I felt like this season had the weakest ending of any season in the entire reboot. But at least you still have The Girl Who Waited to look forward to.  I think I only have a top 5 episode list before and it might not have made the list.  It's definitely on my top 10 though.  I think you'll dig it too.

It was a pretty weak follow up to the episode preceding it. I felt what it revealed could have been done better in an episode with more gravitas.

As a returning from a break episode, I thought Moffat would have been better suited to let the mysteries of River simmer a bit and just delivered a solid 1 off without her.

Night Terrors


Okay.. that might not have furthered the season story arc, but it wasn't bad. It reminded me of
my early DWho. A bit scary... because dolls are effin scary, and an enjoyable way to waste 45
minutes.

I mean nothing special, but nothing bad either. I would note however that these were some
pretty clueless parents. That room was a nightmare of shadow monsters and things to terrify a 
child. Let's lock up all the monsters in a box that we will make the kid sleep with. Then they let 
the kid hear they might be sending him away. Good Lord.. no wonder he had nightmares!

I mean seriously.. those people should have bought Parenting for Idiots or some such book.

No real specific explanation of the creepy dolls and their ability to turn others into Kokeshis, but still..
as with most things Moffat, you really don't mind the lapses. I would note though that one
criticism I may have is that Moffat peaked too soon in this season. It might have all worked better
with a restructuring of the order of episodes. I can think of others that could have been a mid season closer and moving Demon's Run to possibly being the penultimate.

The Girl who Waited

What a great episode. I loved, loved, loved it.

I said that three times because it was really just an expose on the theee leads and they were magnificent.

Karen Gullian was fantastic as both Amy's. Darvil has become one of my favorites of the entire run of the show, and I've come to enjoy things Smith brings to the table as The Doctor.

I loved how this episode showed the differences between Rory and The Doctor. It was verbalized between the two characters and displayed in how they viewed the two timelines scenario. Rory, the heart.. could only think of how terrible it would be to witness the life but not be there to share it, but the more detached
Doctor sees it a fantastic way to face the situation. His running back and forth with the power of the TARDIS showing up in different points in time in others existence is markedly different than the way Rory wants to be. He points that out when he lets The Doctor know he doesn't want to be him, and might not even want to travel with him any longer.

The Doctor does show regret and pain over the way he ends up sometimes negatively impacting people's lives, but ultimately he knows he's gotta do him. It's this pain inside that builds and builds with each incarnation of himself that often leads to his self-destruction as so wonderfully illustrated by Tennant. With
Smith being so good at emoting his darker side, I can see him nailing his eventual exit as Vonne has noted he does.

In a lot of ways this episode reminded me of Amy's choice, but this time the choice was on Rory. Does he save the younger Amy and wipe older Amy out of existence or does he save the very real Amy that is right in front of his face that he loves equally? What an awesome concept to explore. I really know my time has been invested wisely with this show when these solid actors really get in and explore the depth of the characters they portray. This episode was 100% that, and KG as the two Amy's just nailed it. Lord the older hardened Amy was fantastic... don't underestimate KG at all as an actor. The conversation with herself... the scene at the end with old Amy outside the locked TARDIS door as she told Rory not to open it because she knows she will enter. That way of understanding what was right but knowing her own nature.. what she would do... her desire to live, even carrying the pain and anger of a hard, cold, lonely life.. so powerful. 

Then we have the exposè on The Doctor's impact on those around him. We forget sometimes with the adventures, the siliness, and the good he does. We forget the negative things, and when this aspect of The Doctor is explored it adds such a complex level of depth to the show. It adds a level of depth to The Doctor's enemies. It takes them from one dimensional traditional TV bad guys and makes them better as we see their motivations even if might not agree with their conclusions and course of action.

I am not a list guy.. I can't distinguish between my #3 and #4 favorite anything, but this was an episode really near that top shelf.

I'm neglecting you but will be back, ending school year and last night slept for 12 hours

Warthawg1 wrote:

What a great episode. I loved, loved, loved it.

I said that three times because it was really just an expose on the theee leads and they were magnificent.

Karen Gullian was fantastic as both Amy's. Darvil has become one of my favorites of the entire run of the show, and I've come to enjoy things Smith brings to the table as The Doctor.

I loved how this episode showed the differences between Rory and The Doctor. It was verbalized between the two characters and displayed in how they viewed the two timelines scenario. Rory, the heart.. could only think of how terrible it would be to witness the life but not be there to share it, but the more detached
Doctor sees it a fantastic way to face the situation. His running back and forth with the power of the TARDIS showing up in different points in time in others existence is markedly different than the way Rory wants to be. He points that out when he lets The Doctor know he doesn't want to be him, and might not even want to travel with him any longer.

The Doctor does show regret and pain over the way he ends up sometimes negatively impacting people's lives, but ultimately he knows he's gotta do him. It's this pain inside that builds and builds with each incarnation of himself that often leads to his self-destruction as so wonderfully illustrated by Tennant. With
Smith being so good at emoting his darker side, I can see him nailing his eventual exit as Vonne has noted he does.

In a lot of ways this episode reminded me of Amy's choice, but this time the choice was on Rory. Does he save the younger Amy and wipe older Amy out of existence or does he save the very real Amy that is right in front of his face that he loves equally? What an awesome concept to explore. I really know my time has been invested wisely with this show when these solid actors really get in and explore the depth of the characters they portray. This episode was 100% that, and KG as the two Amy's just nailed it. Lord the older hardened Amy was fantastic... don't underestimate KG at all as an actor. The conversation with herself... the scene at the end with old Amy outside the locked TARDIS door as she told Rory not to open it because she knows she will enter. That way of understanding what was right but knowing her own nature.. what she would do... her desire to live, even carrying the pain and anger of a hard, cold, lonely life.. so powerful. 

Then we have the exposè on The Doctor's impact on those around him. We forget sometimes with the adventures, the siliness, and the good he does. We forget the negative things, and when this aspect of The Doctor is explored it adds such a complex level of depth to the show. It adds a level of depth to The Doctor's enemies. It takes them from one dimensional traditional TV bad guys and makes them better as we see their motivations even if might not agree with their conclusions and course of action.

I am not a list guy.. I can't distinguish between my #3 and #4 favorite anything, but this was an episode really near that top shelf.

Disregarding Night Terrors, which had it's moments, the neighbor lady coming to in the pile of rubbish was one of them, and your brief commentary, and direct to this episode. yes, yes, yes, all that yes, yes that, yes that, yes that. most certainly yes that, glad you spotted that. I thought the Doctor's plan to bring the young Amy from the earlier time stream was a bit of Geordie LeForge double-talk (If we re-route the transporter buffers through the holodeck emitters while simultaneously bombarding the synthehol dispenser with baryonic radiation we might be able to get Mr Data inebriated long enough to beam Ensign Ro directly to 10 Forward...but I can't guarantee that her clothes will come with her.) but that's a minor point.

The God Complex

Someone had said that there were several episodes in he final half of this season, but I think they have all explored something that needed exploring before this series' story arc completes.

This was no different.

In the end this was just a vehicle to explore even deeper the relationship between The Doctor and his companions. This was also the enlightenment of The Doctor to a degree and that is always the beginning of the end.

The vehicle for this exposition is as many of Moffat's vehicles have been... there are things that don't make a lot of logical sense but the ride is fun and in the end he gets you where you need to be. That, makes you not even notice or at least not care about those holes.

The end in this case being The Doctor's acknowledgment of what he does. This is a continuation in a way of what has been going on all season, that was really hammered home in The Girl that Waited.

I don't know if this is the end of the Amy and Rory era but if not completely over I can still see it is approaching fast. Funny that we've seen episodes like this one where the "monster" didn't really want to be doing what he is doing. The Doctor has been shown to be similar. Let's be honest... I could list out what this Doctor had done and make it seem a bit monstrous, but he shows an act of compassion here that shows his hearts. He lets Rory and Amy go before he gets them killed... or memory wiped.. or something worse.

At least for now.. I don't  know what happens next. 

--------

I am happy Smith has grown into the role to the point that I am happy to watch his part of  The Doctor's story.

We need to start a thread for companions who could have been... Rita would have been solid.

"He lets Rory and Amy go before he gets them killed... or memory wiped.. or something worse." Hold that thought and we'll come back to it later, I'll let you decide. For now though he drops them off in front of their flat and says his farewells.

After a walk-off grand slam like The Girl Who Waited there is a tendency to regard an episode like The God Complex, a clean single to center, as getting badly fooled on a 0-and-2 change-up, drop the lumber and grab some leather. There was indeed something important about The Doctor which needed to be shown, and the same is true for the next episode, Closing Time. Plus, he gets a gift you have already seen before.

I am sure we will come back to the fate of Rory and Amy. Hence my "at least for now" comment.

As far as the next episode goes...

TBC wrote:

After a walk-off grand slam like The Girl Who Waited there is a tendency to regard an episode like The God Complex, a clean single to center, as getting badly fooled on a 0-and-2 change-up, drop the lumber and grab some leather.

Ya know... technically there would be no further at bats at all after a walk-off grand slam.

Warthawg1 wrote:

TBC wrote:

After a walk-off grand slam like The Girl Who Waited there is a tendency to regard an episode like The God Complex, a clean single to center, as getting badly fooled on a 0-and-2 change-up, drop the lumber and grab some leather.

Ya know... technically there would be no further at bats at all after a walk-off grand slam.

For the guy who hit the homer there would be...in his next game.

Well its kind of hard to replicate a walk-off HR in your first AB!

Closing Time

Okay... this was a sweet little episode but I'm not so sure sweet little episode is what I wanted at this point. The character interaction between The Doctor on his farwell tour and Craig was really solid. The Doctor and the baby stuff was cute. There was some good stuff from Smith being contrite and accepting
his fate.

It was however... just lacking. The tie-in with the overarching story line felt just thrown in at the end as an
afterthought. Unless The Doctor's dad shows up in the finale, I'm not so sure about the father-son bonding
being super relevant.

It was cool seeing Amy now being a model for "Petrichor" perfume. The smell of rain is an excellent idea for a scent. It was also nice seeing the children's interaction with him at the end... now we can have these characters appear later and have them having met The Doctor before.. if Moffat so chooses. The main catch here though is that this is The Doctor's next to last day... meaning he is a couple of hundred years older than he was when we last saw him. What has taken place in that time is something we don't know... at least not yet. 

Anyway... Stetsons are cool.

Processing The Wedding if River Song..

I mean in a season full if Gangers, the set up was there for a fake second Doctor to be the one who was
killed... but I guess the big twist was supposed to be it was the Tesla thing instead. The existence of Ganger Doctor and his survival was teased earlier in the season... so yeah... twist is Tesla..

Closing Time...I thought it was a nice redemption for the character of Craig after his debut episode was a complete waste.

The Wedding of River Song...I spoiler tagged something earlier. You can read it now.

This version of Amy and Rory were spectacular acting by KG and AD. Capt. Williams is the Rory who was totally devoted to Amy, except in this reality there was never any Mels to nudge her unwitting mother to her father, so Amy missed the Last Centurion who was right beside her.

Spoiler tags removed...

TBC wrote:

and Rory is also pretty cool.



"The Wedding of River Song"

Amy: We should go out for a drink some time.
Rory: Yes Ma'am.
Amy: And then get married.
Rory: Yes Ma'am

Later, on top of the pyramid

Rory: I'm not getting any of this...
Amy: In another reality we're married and she's our daughter.
Rory, clearly still not getting any of it: Okay

So I went back and watched the Christmas Special that I skipped.

The Doctor Who take on A Christmas Carol.

How many times are they going to do the luxury liner in peril? The rest of it.. meh. Flying fish are not
my thing. That just seemed so silly... especially the shark that at one moment is wanting to eat them
and then the next pulling them merrily along in a carriage. 

The whole Abigail story was sweet enough and made me think of The Girl in the Fireplace; what would the
Doctor have done with one final day with her.. but it all got lost in the middle of flying sharks and the most
annoying repetitive song ever.

Then I watched the next Christmas special that preceded the upcoming season..

The Doctor, the Widow, and the Wardrobe.

It had a nice magical ending and it reintroduced The Doctor to the Ponds...

Not much to say other than that... it was illogical if not non-sensical, but I guess when you are waiting on a new season to begin that it fills a void and gives you a fix.

Hopefully there is nothing else between me and the next season.

You're way ahead of me for the moment, but no, you can go right to next season.

Warthawg1 wrote:

Then I watched the next Christmas special that preceded the upcoming season..

The Doctor, the Widow, and the Wardrobe.

It had a nice magical ending and it reintroduced The Doctor to the Ponds...

Not much to say other than that... it was illogical if not non-sensical, but I guess when you are waiting on a new season to begin that it fills a void and gives you a fix.

Hopefully there is nothing else between me and the next season.

Yes, you are clear now to proceed, but advance spoiler-free warning, you are going to want to watch the Series Seven Christmas Special in due time. After the first half of Series Seven ends.

S7 I guess... E01

The Asylum of the Daleks

Okay... what I didn't like:

Amy and Rory on the verge of divorce. Sorry... it just didn't work for me at all. It didn't make sense.
He waited for 2000 years, Amy. He waited knowing if you would ever be there again for him. He waited through he centuries and was seen dragging your dungeon out of the flames. He would have burned an almost-eternity in hell for 5 more minutes with you in any condition. He would have stayed with a older version of you... and then you are kicking that love to the curb because you think he always wanted to have kids and you can't (but you actually did... with him). To me that made Amy look like a dolt. It was obvious it wasn't a deal killer for Rory.

I hated every last bit of that. Every bit.

What I liked:

Pretty much everything else.

The Daleks had some much needed depth brought back to them. I loved their comment about a possible reason they hadn't killed The Doctor was because of their appreciation of his pure hatred of them. Matt's reaction to that was so subtle yet totally effective.

The Doctor's ability to reconcile Amy and Rory at least salvaged what I thought was a terrible idea.. so theres that..

Then there's Oswin or whatever her name was.. I think I would put her on my list of companions that never were but you could see as one. I wasn't really drawn to her like I was with Rose, Amy, and Rory... or even Donna, but she played off of The Doctor like one. I didn't figure out that she was a Dalek until the
reveal, but then it all instantly clicked. Moffat does that all the time, but if I have one complaint about him it's that.... he does that all the time.

If that doesn't make sense, let me see if I can explain...

It's like he has a formula to his story telling and while the details are always clever and interesting, the formula never changes. I have come to expect the clever ending that explains it all or is some big twist, and because of that it doesn't always surprise me. It doesn't surprise me because it's almost like the elements that don't make sense are made too evident. I see them immediately and immediately know there will be a clever ending that explains it all. If not exactly  that... I expect some big twist.

I don't think every episode needs that exact thing. 

Anyway... I am not really complaining about things... I just think a lot of consecutive Moffat has made me
appreciate and miss some of what Davies did in his best episodes.

That is all..

I promise, this weekend I am going to catch up to you and respond to everything, but let me just hop in here:

Warthawg1 wrote:

It's like he has a formula to his story telling and while the details are always clever and interesting, the formula never changes. I have come to expect the clever ending that explains it all or is some big twist, and because of that it doesn't always surprise me. It doesn't surprise me because it's almost like the elements that don't make sense are made too evident. I see them immediately and immediately know there will be a clever ending that explains it all. If not exactly  that... I expect some big twist.

I don't think every episode needs that exact thing. 

Anyway... I am not really complaining about things... I just think a lot of consecutive Moffat has made me
appreciate and miss some of what Davies did in his best episodes.

That is all..

It begins.

But yeah. Part of the Moffat love story is when the honeymoon is over.

He had one REALLY amazing season, and one that was very good.

But then his style starts to pall.

I mean, of course I'd say that, I'm a Davies girl, but I kind of do wish that Moffat had just done 1-2 seasons and then bowed out and focused on Sherlock and just written a couple episodes per season under another show-runner with fresher ideas.

It's not that I don't appreciate Moffat, I DO. And maybe I'm partly bitter about the second half of his tenure and all of the COMPLETELY wasted opportunities. And then there is that my beef is also his Happy Happy Ending fetish and lack of emotional depth.

But, I digress.

But contrast that to the moods of Davies. He had the EXACT thing that you are picking up that Moffat lacks, versatility. And sometimes Davies' shit didn't work. Because he was always messing around with different things and weird shit and at times it fell flat. He wasn't the salesman that Moffat is, and he wasn't the genius that Moffat is. But his work had HEART, and it was fearless.

vonnegut wrote:

But yeah.  Part of the Moffat love story is when the honeymoon is over.

Speaking of love stories... back to Rory and Amy..

More depth and background could have been written into the honeymoon being over. It was just thrown out there and I was told to accept it.... "because". It was something that needed to be hinted at..
developed.. I needed to be made to believe it, and I didn't.

A few years after Snakes on a Plane, there were..

Dinosaurs on a Spaceship...

Starring Walder Frey

and two kooky robots... with supporting cast
of Queen Nefertiti and Crocodile Dundee.

This started slow until David Bradley showed up, and then it became a lot of fun.

Lots of good lines in this episode and we again see a fantastic supporting cast; from Mark Williams
as elder Williams and of course David Bradley. The well travelled Rupert Graves was awesome as well although the "big gun" innuendo made me groan.

Some things to note... The Doctor and Amy (or The Pinds if you prefer) are growing apart. There
was also a look.. a look when Amy said something about being there through her end.. The Doctor
looked at her in a way that makes me think something very sad will happen to the Pond's. I say
the Ponds instead of Amy because there was another "look" given towards both of them as they stood with father Williams looking at Earth.

David Bradley makes everything a lot of fun.

I remember this as being an episode that was so fucking absurd that I shouldn't have liked it, but I did.

The premise is absurd but when it's actually explained it somehow works. The first half of the show is silly but when Solomon shows up it gets really good

A Town Called Mercy

1 part High Plains Drifter, 1 part the original Westworld

As a fan of the spaghetti western, I can tell you that Sergio Leone would have been proud. There was a lot to like in this episode and while not quite top shelf, it was at the vary top of the second shelf. I genuinely enjoyed it. It was a nice departure from the more silly but still solid last episode, and I think a serious stand alone was definitely in order. The gunslinger was excellent.. the raging Doctor was excellent. He's going down that path that other Doctors have gone down.. submitting to the rage and anger as they spiral towards another regeneration.

The Power of Three...

Another character study...

As The Doctor and the Ponds become closer, my sense of impending tragedy increases. Especially the very tender moment shared between The Doctor and Amy when he explains he's not running away, but running to them.

The episode built nicely... it had a nice variety of comedy, seriousness.. Brian Williams was great again, but his comment about The Doctor taking care of them and The Doctor's comment about his companions almost never dying came across as pretty ominous.

When are you watching the next episode?

I'm not commenting, but I'm reading.

Nessess wrote:

When are you watching the next episode?

Later tonight. i am assuming from the comment that it's huge. It's the mid-season finale, isn't it....

vonnegut wrote:

I'm not commenting, but I'm reading.

Yeah... the lack of responses is making my commentary more
brief.

Funny... the last scene with The Doctor reading the afterword.

The pigeons...

Okay...let me get the bad out of the way.

The Statue of Liberty was unnecessary and a bit ridiculous. I won't even bother explaining why.

The good:

Just about everything else. The film-noir style was fantastic, especially for someone like myself who is a huge fan of things like "A Touch of Evil", "Double Indemnity", "Strangers on a Train" and so many more.
(watch them if you haven't already)

Most of the Weeping Angel's stuff. Good Lord they are creepy. 

I thought Matt Smith totally sold his personal loss. Rory and Amy's love for one another stayed true till the end. I had prepared myself for the end... It was foreshadowed way too much to catch me off-guard, and I know too many people who didn't spoil me but said things that hinted at the Pond's demise. I mean I am not really terribly stupid, so I pick up on things. 

Anyway.... and I am not going to sit here and think the afterword written by Amy was totally on the
up and up. What compassion would an WAngel have to send Amy back to a happy place. They are pure evil.. and remember what River said about never letting the Doctor see you suffer. That line wasn't just about her wrist. I would imagine the afterward was fake in it's "hey we lived out our lives happy and together" aspect. There is no reason to think the angel sent her back to the same time and place as Rory
other than maybe an individual viewer's own desire for a happy ending.

All we do know is that in the end the Pond's chose how they wanted to live. They didn't complain about their choice to run with The Doctor cost them so much. I guess the lesson is that the cost was worth it.

What an adventure...

and What an adventure it has been to be a part of these travels, but just like with The Doctor.. one should never travel alone.

Now, before you continue with the second half Series Seven opener, The Bells of St Johns, you MUST watch the Christmas Special.

I been keeping silent and reading to let you finish off the Ponds run without disturbing you. Amy is the greatest Companion of all time, IMO, and Rory is her perfect foil. I love that Moffat wrote them an ending where they "lived happily ever after" somewhere the Doctor could not get to them and take them away into more dangerous adventures in space/time. The scene, "this is our normal life", the milk's gone off, then they hear the sound of the TARDIS and they jump like junkies when "Joe Who Always Has The Good Shit" does that special knock at the door. The Doctor is the best and worst dealer in the Universe.

Warthawg1 wrote:

Funny... the last scene with The Doctor reading the afterword.

The pigeons...

I've been looking at your sig and sad-smiling ever since you met the Ponds.

Warthawg1 wrote:

Okay...let me get the bad out of the way.

The Statue of Liberty was unnecessary and a bit ridiculous. I won't even bother explaining why.

Because it's absurd, AND because for like, huge minutes at a time, they aren't looking at it yet it does nothing?
I really think that's just British Show wanting to have fun with a well-known American symbol, just because "any statue" can be an angel, etc.
But yeah, that bugged me, too, lol.

Quote :

The good:

Just about everything else. The film-noir style was fantastic, especially for someone like myself who is a huge fan of things like "A Touch of Evil", "Double Indemnity", "Strangers on a Train" and so many more.
(watch them if you haven't already)

I particularly think River was great in that medium.  She's so film-noir.  

Quote :

Most of the Weeping Angel's stuff. Good Lord they are creepy. 

I thought Matt Smith totally sold his personal loss. Rory and Amy's love for one another stayed true till the end. I had prepared myself for the end... It was foreshadowed way too much to catch me off-guard, and I know too many people who didn't spoil me but said things that hinted at the Pond's demise. I mean I am not really terribly stupid, so I pick up on things. 

Something that KILLS me is that during the final scene, when he's reading her afterward, apparently they actually had Karen Gillan sit on the bench with him, out of sight of the camera, and read her lines out loud to him while they filmed his reaction.
Um, fuck yes, I think his emotion was real.  (Because naturally, Matt and Karen and Arthur became close during filming)

I think that is part of what makes Smith begin to change and grow into the role, he begins to empathize so hard with the role that a lot of the emotions the Doctor is feeling, HE is ACTUALLY feeling.  And it makes the portrayal come off as so genuine, because, well, it is genuine.  More of that later.  
But yeah, it adds a LOT to Smith's performance, and I think Moffatt was smart enough to pick up on that and use it.

Quote :

Anyway.... and I am not going to sit here and think the afterword written by Amy was totally on the
up and up. What compassion would an WAngel have to send Amy back to a happy place. They are pure evil.. and remember what River said about never letting the Doctor see you suffer. That line wasn't just about her wrist. I would imagine the afterward was fake in it's "hey we lived out our lives happy and together" aspect. There is no reason to think the angel sent her back to the same time and place as Rory
other than maybe an individual viewer's own desire for a happy ending.

You aren't the first to take that view of it, even with the "don't let him see the damage" line as back-up.
And I think it is left ambiguous.  
The only things, I think, that support them ending up together-- there is the gravestone, AND more importantly, if they hadn't ended up together, Rory would have torn apart the universe to find her again.

"To save you, I could do anything."

Oh, my heart.

Quote :

All we do know is that in the end the Pond's chose how they wanted to live. They didn't complain about their choice to run with The Doctor cost them so much. I guess the lesson is that the cost was worth it.

What an adventure...

and What an adventure it has been to be a part of these travels, but just like with The Doctor.. one should never travel alone.

<3

I think Blink backs up the idea that the Angel's would send them to the same place. Didn't the Doctor explicitly say that they kill you with kindness? The whole point of them is that even though they are creepy as fuck, they dont actually kill. It's been a 2hile but in Blink weren't they sending people to the same place and time a lot?

I need to continue to think that Amy and Rory ended up together. Dont ruin this for me! Lol

Nessess wrote:

I think Blink backs up the idea that the Angel's would send them to the same place.  Didn't the Doctor explicitly say that they kill you with kindness?  The whole point of them is that even though they are creepy as fuck, they dont actually kill.  It's been a 2hile but in Blink weren't they sending people to the same place and time a lot?

I need to continue to think that Amy and Rory ended up together.  Dont ruin this for me!  Lol

No, in Blink, they sent Sally's friend back to like the turn of the century, and then Billy Shipton to the 1960's.

Although I think they also sent the Doctor and Martha to the 1960's. Hmmm.

This doesn't exactly seem to be killing with kindness and I'm pretty sure there have been other
instances where they didn't exactly sweet-talk someone to death.

The gravestone does back up them being together, but I am not sure they included the gravestone
for that purpose or more for dramatic effect of knowing she's gone.

Let's just assume though that they did live out their lives together and happy. It is Moffat after all..

Just remember though... it's possible they didn't...

I mean we can assume anything here because there are giant plot holes anyway. The reason The Doctor
can't see them again is sketchy as hell. They lived to a ripe old age.. he could have gone back and seen
them in the 40's or 50's or whenever even he couldn't go back to NY in 1938. I mean River certainly had no
issue havimg further contact with them as she was able to get Amy to write the afterward for the book!

I will miss the Ponds because they were so bloody awesome, but their end didn't really kill me because of
the "and they lived happily ever after" part. I guess though I should have been sad for The Doctor, but just
imagine the drop-kick, nut crushing shot to my jimmies if they died apart, alone, and miserable! As jacked 
up as that might have been it would have pushed some ongoing themes along about the impact of getting
involved with The Doctor. Many are ready to say Donna's ending was cruel, and you can't deny that a big theme
is that some bad things ride side saddle with the old Doc.

Warthawg1 wrote:

I mean we can assume anything here because there are giant plot holes anyway. The reason The Doctor
can't see them again is sketchy as hell. They lived to a ripe old age.. he could have gone back and seen
them in the 40's or 50's or whenever even he couldn't go back to NY in 1938. I mean River certainly had no
issue havimg further contact with them as she was able to get Amy to write the afterward for the book!

Or, you know, they could have LEFT NEW YORK and just gone to London and run into him there, since he's always in London. It's kind of absurd that they would stay in NYC.

Quote :

I will miss the Ponds because they were so bloody awesome, but their end didn't really kill me because of
the "and they lived happily ever after" part. I guess though I should have been sad for The Doctor, but just
imagine the drop-kick, nut crushing shot to my jimmies if they died apart, alone, and miserable! As jacked 
up as that might have been it would have pushed some ongoing themes along about the impact of getting
involved with The Doctor. Many are ready to say Donna's ending was cruel, and you can't deny that a big theme
is that some bad things ride side saddle with the old Doc.

Straight up Moffat doesn't have the balls to do to any companion what Davies did to Donna.

Well I still don't believe that Donna's return to reality was all that terrible, but yeah.... Moffat would never 
have a truly tragic end for Amy.

The Snowmen 

This was definitely one of my favorite Christmas specials and I really enjoyed the fact that it fit in as a part of the overarching story instead of being a one off. 

This really had a little bitmof
everything, didn't it? 

We had Clara which I recognized instantly as being the same actor from The Asylum of Daleks. 

We had the great detective, my favorite lizard lady and her wife.. I love those two.

We had Strax the Sontaran who The Doctor called a psychic potato dwarf. I would love a few
episodes of Strax the Companion.

We also had "Winter is Coming". Sweet

Now what I didn't know until the reveal at the end was that Clara is Clara Oswin Oswald. What I
still don't know is if the latter character is a regeneration of some sort of this one, or if this one
is the latter's ancestor. It does however look like The Doctor knows something as he's apparently 
off to find a 3rd version of her. He undoubtedly finds her, and I guess he has a new companion. 
She did draw him out of his melancholy.

The episode itself was fun. Moffat loves bringing characters back... I mean the entire crew that 
came to help him in A Good Man goes to War... and then in some capacity, Clara.

<3 Strax makes everything better <3

Your questions about Clara will be answered.

Yes, they will be answered. Now go watch The Bells of St Johns.

ETA: Vastra, Jenny, and Strax are great fun.

vonnegut wrote:

<3 Strax makes everything better <3

Thank you for your comment you putrescent alien filth.